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Dr_Horrible
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14 Oct 2010, 4:04 pm

Racism is so unfitting of an aspie.

The step from racism to wanting to sterilise or isolate the disabled or different people isn't that far.



Hanotaux
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14 Oct 2010, 8:09 pm

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Now I'll call a spade a spade: that sort of thinking, that an all white or near all white population is better, is what I consider racist (maybe reword to homogeneous?).

If you consider it to be racist, than fine.

I myself do not respond to, and I am not concerned by such labels and constructs. I see no reason why I should even be concerned? If some "wankster" calls me a racist, then heck, I would feel honored knowing that I have distanced myself from his crowd as much as possible. I want no association at all with the MTV-non-conformist clique. They can manage themselves. I'm sure they'll manage their demographic change without my contribution.

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And you need to understand that history teaches us that when the obvious differences are removed, people will start to distinguish themselves using the less obvious ones; your perceived enemy will change from the person with the different skin color to the person with a different religion, or a different nose, or some other factor.


I agree, but this happens now anyway, even in racially diverse countries.

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If anything, societies overall seem to have become more peaceful the more they've been forced to confront and learn to integrate differences. Not right away, but over time.


Possibly. I think alot of stuff gets swept under the rug.

Or, many times, differences have been crushed in history only beacuse a powerful imperial power smothered both factions at bayonet point for the sake of greater peace in the empire. In all the days when the Austrian Hapsburgs were the "jailor" of Eastern Europe.......... or the Soviet Union quelched ethnic tensions in Eastern Europe.

Ethnic rivalries were glossed over in the Balkans for example, for decades, until the ex-Hapsburg vacuum allowed those long dormant rivalries to reemerge in places like Croatia. This isn't a very detailed explanation but there are numerous examples in history of conquered peoples having their own rivalries smoothed over merely because they were both conquered by an imperial power that was far to strong to let infighting disturb the peace.

What are some examples of societies that have "been forced to confront and learn to integrate differences. Not right away, but over time?" I'd like to know?

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There can be no "just let it return" to the way it was, you know that, right? That would require huge and forceful displacement, something that never goes well.


I don't see why not. i'm interested in creative solutions. The current borders of the USA do not necessarily have to stay "as is."

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No one sat down and said, "bring in minorities! We need to be more diverse!"


Actually they did.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCvj5bfrF98

(I'm looking for this other awesome piece of propaganda........ A cartoon where the exact immigration plan is detailed in full and attempted to rationalize to a confused white.)

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If you are going to blame anyone for the unnatural pieces of it, that would be the slave traders, wouldn't it? Quite possibly our own ancestors.


We discussed this before, so quickly -

- African kingdoms were fully complicit in the slave trade
- Ottomans and Barbary Pirates, and Muslims enslaved millions from Europe
- Whites were also virtually enslaved with "indentured servitude."
- You can't apply 21st century morals and values to 17th century slavers really........ Using presentism to chastise historical individuals as "racists' at a time when overt slavery was within the consensus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism ... l_analysis)



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14 Oct 2010, 9:29 pm

BigK wrote:
Blacks don't seem to multiplying at any great rate. As long as you can speak some Spanish you should be fine.

I wonder how easy it will be for the Republicans to get elected in 2050.

Careless breeding practices by minorities gets on my nerves. While I don't believe in abortion, minority groups are testing my patience on the matter. Not only does it create a burden for society, but it also encourages the least fit among them to do the most breeding. It's still a problem to a lesser extent with whites. By the time 2050 rolls around I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few generations of minorities that were so poorly bred that the only way to make voting simple enough or get them to care enough would be to have the candidates participate in luxa league wrestling or go on some type of reality show. The best and brightest (regardless of race) are putting off having kids and going to college until they can get married, settle down, and afford to raise them.


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14 Oct 2010, 9:38 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
BigK wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I think the worry about what life will be like when demographics change and the balance of power shifts (not necessarily to any one group, just weighs differently than today) is a natural one. When I read the first page, what I saw more was the fear of change, and I think that is something society does need to address. Or has that already been discussed in other threads? Sorry, I'm only sort of kind of partly paying attention ;)

If it hasn't, this is my summary of why I consider it an important discussion:

I've noticed that it seems to be a whole lot easier for people to think multi-culturally when they are the majority, and their position in the majority is not threatened. A group of 100 people getting mad about one orange person moving in is acting racist; using their power to squash that one orange person. But lets say you've got 10 members of the Jones family and 10 members of the Smith family sharing a house, but not actually integrating or getting along that well. Still, because of the balance, everyone so far has had a fair voice. Now the Smiths have 10 more relatives that want to move in, and you're a Jones, but have no more family members to add. Are you going to fear that your interests will no longer be considered? Of course you are, and no one would call that fear racist. The question raised in this thread is far more complicated, and there are many more natural mitigating factors at work, but it is still the same fear, and society needs to address it.


I don't see why the numbers matter when deciding whether or not it is racist. They may affect how rational the fear is but racist is still racist. Anyway, The first one in is the thin end of the wedge. The slippery slope ;)


When someone believes that the first one is the thin end of the wedge, when it comes to worrying about their own interests eventually being squashed, that is racist, in my opinion: a fear that has no basis in reality.

But when the fear comes at the point where a person is about to go from majority to minority, it is a lot more imminent. Sure, there is a racist element, but that is no longer the overriding element, because now some rational arguments about human nature and group think start to creep in. You can look at history and see what can potentially happen (which is not to say it will). Am I suggesting they are right to be afraid? No, I'm not. I am saying it is understandable. How people feel about things is based on a whole smorgasbord of input, and race and cultural history are included. It isn't as easy as, "it isn't right to feel that way," because people do feel that way, and they are acting within the parameters of normal human nature when they do. People who don't want to think of themselves as racist will find all sorts of PC friendly covers to avoid being the minority in the room, but they're still reacting to the fear; I've seen it with the local schools. It is that pervasiveness even in one of the most vocally accepting parts of the country that leads me to feel it is a natural fear, and not just one born of hate. I don't like it, and none of us should, but it isn't productive to call large swaths of well meaning people racist, and society can't fix what it prefers to hide under more PC covers and pretend does not exist.

If we want to evolve beyond that, we have to address it.

All that said, I don't think that fearing the upcoming demographic tipping point is a rational fear for several reasons, mostly because it really is not as simple as Jones' now being outnumbered by Smiths:

1) There is no one current minority group that will suddenly become the new majority, and the various different minority groups do not share a single agenda or otherwise act in a unified fashion.
2) The laws put on the books don't limit themselves to current minorities; they address a concept, not one group, and should turn to apply to protect any group that suddenly becomes targeted.
3) More and more families will belong to multiple groups.


Power, privilege and population topic

In the US, power appears to be more of a numbers/votes game. Power in Canada is more of a political privilege/ecomomic/financial and educational factor. Minorities, in the US and in Europe, may even outdo the general population in terms of body count, subsisting in ghettoes and rundown neighbourhoods. These are few and far between in Canada, except (unfortunately) for First nations people, but because these substandard reserves are in out of the way places, they are generally ignored. No, not a good thing (and it is slowly changing) for the FN people but the majority population has always breatheed a sigh of relief because then these isolated reserves are not immediate threats. :roll:

Most minorities in Canada are interspersed and integrated into the general population. This largely prevents race riots and the nasty situation of isolated and poverty stricken disadvantaged people. There are ethnic congress groups, which by and large are mainstream.
But I can see the need for NAACP-type groups in situations where power is not shared evenly by groups who have traditionally not had trouble obtaining and maintaining power,


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Hanotaux
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15 Oct 2010, 12:03 am

Quote:
Now I'll call a spade a spade: that sort of thinking, that an all white or near all white population is better, is what I consider racist (maybe reword to homogeneous?).


I have self-actualized past the point to where I can be bothered by such simple charges of "racism" coming from the prosaic population. Wether or not people wish to bleat the charge as the always do is irrelevant and meaningless to me, as I have moved on to a higher level of thinking and I am not confined within the parameters of the contemporary conformist ethos.



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15 Oct 2010, 1:34 am

John_Browning wrote:
BigK wrote:
Blacks don't seem to multiplying at any great rate. As long as you can speak some Spanish you should be fine.

I wonder how easy it will be for the Republicans to get elected in 2050.

Careless breeding practices by minorities gets on my nerves. While I don't believe in abortion, minority groups are testing my patience on the matter. Not only does it create a burden for society, but it also encourages the least fit among them to do the most breeding. It's still a problem to a lesser extent with whites. By the time 2050 rolls around I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few generations of minorities that were so poorly bred that the only way to make voting simple enough or get them to care enough would be to have the candidates participate in luxa league wrestling or go on some type of reality show. The best and brightest (regardless of race) are putting off having kids and going to college until they can get married, settle down, and afford to raise them.


I have not observed that the fastest growing minority population in my area is doing it through anything that would be considered careless breeding. They are doing it within stable family units that work hard and know how to stretch a dollar. That isn't careless. They value children and are willing to set aside their own needs to raise as many children as God seems fit to bless them with. A different value system that you and I most likely were raised with, but it is not careless.


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15 Oct 2010, 1:36 am

Hanotaux wrote:
Quote:
Now I'll call a spade a spade: that sort of thinking, that an all white or near all white population is better, is what I consider racist (maybe reword to homogeneous?).


I have self-actualized past the point to where I can be bothered by such simple charges of "racism" coming from the prosaic population. Wether or not people wish to bleat the charge as the always do is irrelevant and meaningless to me, as I have moved on to a higher level of thinking and I am not confined within the parameters of the contemporary conformist ethos.


For the record, I don't consider myself to be very interesting, either. But I prefer being prosaic to being misguided.


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15 Oct 2010, 1:39 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
I have not observed that the fastest growing minority population in my area is doing it through anything that would be considered careless breeding. They are doing it within stable family units that work hard and know how to stretch a dollar. That isn't careless. They value children and are willing to set aside their own needs to raise as many children as God seems fit to bless them with. A different value system that you and I most likely were raised with, but it is not careless.

Wow, I guess the best and brightest among the minority groups move up to your area then. My town would give Charles Darwin an aneurysm.


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Hanotaux
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15 Oct 2010, 1:56 am

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Now I'll call a spade a spade: that sort of thinking, that an all white or near all white population is better, is what I consider racist (maybe reword to homogeneous?).


If it is "racist" to even suggest that a homogenously white society would be superior to a "diverse" society of whites+non-whites, I think that may imply that minorities are the "Master race."

if Whites + non-whites is superior to Whites + Whites......... I think that may suggest that the non-whites are naturally superior. After all, non-whites would then be the elevating factor, would they not?



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15 Oct 2010, 2:40 am

Hanotaux wrote:
Quote:
Now I'll call a spade a spade: that sort of thinking, that an all white or near all white population is better, is what I consider racist (maybe reword to homogeneous?).


If it is "racist" to even suggest that a homogenously white society would be superior to a "diverse" society of whites+non-whites, I think that may imply that minorities are the "Master race."

if Whites + non-whites is superior to Whites + Whites......... I think that may suggest that the non-whites are naturally superior. After all, non-whites would then be the elevating factor, would they not?


Or it may just be that the combination is better. You don't want to get too homogeneous and inbred do you? ;)

What next? Get rid of all the red heads and brunettes?

Seriously, if you are not blond haired and blue eyed you obviously don't have the proper breeding.

You should be a decent height too at least 5'10" for a man and free from imperfections. No ret*ds that's for sure.

How pure is your bloodline Hanotaux? Please submit proof to the proper authorities that none of your recent ancestors were or are non Aryan people. Only DNA tests from recognised testing centres will be accepted.


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15 Oct 2010, 8:08 am

Hanotaux wrote:
Quote:
Now I'll call a spade a spade: that sort of thinking, that an all white or near all white population is better, is what I consider racist (maybe reword to homogeneous?).


If it is "racist" to even suggest that a homogenously white society would be superior to a "diverse" society of whites+non-whites, I think that may imply that minorities are the "Master race."

if Whites + non-whites is superior to Whites + Whites......... I think that may suggest that the non-whites are naturally superior. After all, non-whites would then be the elevating factor, would they not?


There have been majority white societies and majority "other" societies and they rise and fall with equal alacrity. Suggesting that a white society is superior to a diverse or homgenously black/asian/whatever society isn't particularly supported by history. Not to say that there haven't been successful single-race societies, but they haven't all been white, and not all white societies are exactly outstanding examples.


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Hanotaux
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15 Oct 2010, 9:56 am

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Or it may just be that the combination is better. You don't want to get too homogeneous and inbred do you?

What next? Get rid of all the red heads and brunettes?

Seriously, if you are not blond haired and blue eyed you obviously don't have the proper breeding.

You should be a decent height too at least 5'10" for a man and free from imperfections. No ret*ds that's for sure.

How pure is your bloodline Hanotaux? Please submit proof to the proper authorities that none of your recent ancestors were or are non Aryan people. Only DNA tests from recognised testing centres will be accepted.


Awww.......... it sounds like you are just jealous because we won't let you in our little club.

Why do you even care anyway if a few "racist" white guys don't want to hang around minorities? Its not like you will miss us that much anyway(except our tax dollars to fund the dole.)

In America, blacks often spout off about how bad it is living under "the man," but they sure don't complain when that welfare check comes in the mail.

Would it be too big a deal to just let the white guys go their own way if they don't want to participate in diversity? You guys seem to do fine enough on your own so if we 'hatas" want to be on the outs, than surely you are having enough fun as it is to be bothered. Why is the elite so desperate to include and streamline white males in to multiculturalism?

If diversity is so "natural" and successful as it is, why such an interest in converting some reluctant whites? Are you that desperate for our company?

Quote:
----------------


Quote:
There have been majority white societies and majority "other" societies and they rise and fall with equal alacrity. Suggesting that a white society is superior to a diverse or homgenously black/asian/whatever society isn't particularly supported by history. Not to say that there haven't been successful single-race societies, but they haven't all been white, and not all white societies are exactly outstanding examples
.

OK, what are some "successful" historically white+non-white societies?



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15 Oct 2010, 11:12 am

hanotaux: who's your favorite poet?



Hanotaux
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15 Oct 2010, 11:15 am

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hanotaux: who's your favorite poet?


I don't know TBH. I don't really read poetry.



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15 Oct 2010, 11:17 am

Hanotaux wrote:
[
Quote:
There have been majority white societies and majority "other" societies and they rise and fall with equal alacrity. Suggesting that a white society is superior to a diverse or homgenously black/asian/whatever society isn't particularly supported by history. Not to say that there haven't been successful single-race societies, but they haven't all been white, and not all white societies are exactly outstanding examples
.

OK, what are some "successful" historically white+non-white societies?


Roman Empire



Hanotaux
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15 Oct 2010, 11:23 am

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Roman Empire


^ but not really the Roman Republic.