Bible - Great threat to morality?
16 Nov 2010, 10:36 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
How about people being fired over religion?
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/home-dep ... god-button
But apparently they have no problem sponsoring Gay Pride
https://careers.homedepot.com/cg/content.do?p=diversity
http://www.citizenlink.com/2010/07/the- ... s-boycott/
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/home-dep ... god-button
But apparently they have no problem sponsoring Gay Pride
https://careers.homedepot.com/cg/content.do?p=diversity
http://www.citizenlink.com/2010/07/the- ... s-boycott/
We here see the true extent to which Christianity harms society - even after being in power for centuries, slaughtering Roman Pagans, heretics, and the like, Christians (particularly those of a conservative or Christian nationalist bend) have a persecution complex enough to make Godel blush.
I've heard cases of cashiers wearing an American Atheists symbol being forced to take it off. So what is so wrong with a store stating that if you wear a brazen, Christian nationalist, exclussionist symbol that goes against company policy you should be forced to take it off?
And you must have some homophobia to think that not allowing the a cash register guy to brazenly and without explicit disapproval continue wearing a button insinuating that atheists aren't part of the nation to a retail chain giving out money to gay pride parades.
No wonder you claim to see so much "intolerance" coming from centre-left atheists - you're false equivalency factor is COLOSSAL.
Last edited by Master_Pedant on 16 Nov 2010, 10:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
AngelRho
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16 Nov 2010, 10:37 pm
waltur wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
waltur wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
You can argue all you want about Abraham, the fact is God did not let him kill the child. It was a test of faith, probably a precurser for the coming of Jesus.
you don't seem to realize what you're saying when you say "it was a test of faith." why was it a "test of faith?" the position put forward by the OP was that, in order to pass this "test of faith," abraham had to be willing to kill isaac. it doesn't matter if god was going to prevent it from happening if the point is that abraham needed to be willing to kill his own son to please the voice in his head.
it's hard enough for many modern schizophrenics to sort out reality from paranoid delusion, how hard must it have been before we understood that voices in one's head originate there?
ffs, a woman in Fernley Nevada stabbed her 7 year old son while he slept, trying to kill him. she said she did it at god's urging and also because he was the antichrist. this happened less than a week ago.
he's alive but this is going to color the rest of his life.
maybe it's time to stop relying on a book that says "you should totally listen to the voices in your head when they tell you to kill people, especially your own kids" for moral guidance. maybe it's time to realize that even you are more capable of making moral judgements than abraham, as you've at least made the concession that it could be "satan's voice."
According to the Bible, since there is a prohibition on child sacrifice and murder AND because we are instructed to discern between what you call "the voices" tell us to do and what is established as the will of God as set forth in the Bible, one may readily ignore "the voices" if they are instructing someone to do what is known to be evil. You're refusing to acknowledge the point of what God instructed Abraham to do.
i repeatedly avoid the subject of "the point" because "the point" was revealed after abraham tried to DO "what god instructed abraham to do."
you're refusing to acknowledge "what god instructed abraham to do." are you telling me that abraham did not know that sacrificing his own child was evil? how was it a test of faith, if he did not?
you can't have it both ways. either we are to obey god when he pops up in our head or we are to follow our morals (yours being defined by the bible). filicide is pretty evil.
Ah, but Abraham was a devoted follower of God from early on and because of the ways God revealed Himself to Abraham, that shows Abraham was also a prophet. So if Abraham knew God so intimately, Abraham would have known good and well that God would provide the sacrifice. And Abraham would have known God would not have allowed him to take Isaac's life. Further, even if Abraham DIDN'T know, there's the logical issue of God already revealing His intention for His chosen to be established through the lineage of Abraham and Sarah, i.e. Isaac, the only proper heir to Abraham rather than the son born to a slave. So if God knows everything and can reveal what He wants to whom He wants to reveal it, He can't reveal that Abraham's lineage will pass on through Isaac if Isaac is already dead. So regardless of whether Abraham already knows what God is going to do because Abraham is a prophet or whether Abraham reasoned it out, he knows that God will let Isaac live. Perhaps the point, then, whether or not ABRAHAM knows for Himself that God will show up at the right time. Abraham passed THIS test by trusting God, and because he believed that it was God who stopped him, he didn't go through with the sacrifice.
What I'm telling you is Abraham placed his faith in God to provide. He wouldn't have done anything evil, else he'd have known that whatever spirit was instructing him to do evil was NOT indeed God, nor any kind of good god worthy of obeisance. But since he knew that the instruction was from God, he had no doubts as to whether he was doing the right thing. And God, of course, revealed that his obedience was accepted and provided an appropriate animal sacrifice in Isaac's place.
And that is the point of Christian faith.
What I find unacceptable is disobedience that leads one to murder a child in the name of God when the Bible clearly shows that this is inappropriate.
Consider this: Someone mentioned a woman killing her child for thinking that child was the antichrist. What a crock... Look, according to the Bible, antichrist will come and no amount of human or Godly intervention will prevent that. So if someone murders the antichrist as a child, that person is standing in the way God's plan for the end times. Further, the one who takes the role of the antichrist is already known, whether he's been born yet or whether we have to wait another 2,000 years. Whatever. But what's plain is that while God knows the choices we can make, the same applies to antichrist. Thus the one who becomes antichrist will do so stemming from a choice he makes. Killing a child because you actually think "God said so" or because you're mental is plain wrong. If a spirit really is telling you to kill your child for WHATEVER reason, that spirit is not God or anything related to God.
What God wants in terms of personal revelation to His believers must be corroborated with scripture and in harmony with his conscience. The question in the topic title is "Great threat to morality?" Absolutely not. I say that Christians who read, understand, and apply the Bible to their lives are better prepared to speak and act as the conscience of society than those who aren't even spiritual.
17 Nov 2010, 2:37 pm
AngelRho wrote:
waltur wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
waltur wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
You can argue all you want about Abraham, the fact is God did not let him kill the child. It was a test of faith, probably a precurser for the coming of Jesus.
you don't seem to realize what you're saying when you say "it was a test of faith." why was it a "test of faith?" the position put forward by the OP was that, in order to pass this "test of faith," abraham had to be willing to kill isaac. it doesn't matter if god was going to prevent it from happening if the point is that abraham needed to be willing to kill his own son to please the voice in his head.
it's hard enough for many modern schizophrenics to sort out reality from paranoid delusion, how hard must it have been before we understood that voices in one's head originate there?
ffs, a woman in Fernley Nevada stabbed her 7 year old son while he slept, trying to kill him. she said she did it at god's urging and also because he was the antichrist. this happened less than a week ago.
he's alive but this is going to color the rest of his life.
maybe it's time to stop relying on a book that says "you should totally listen to the voices in your head when they tell you to kill people, especially your own kids" for moral guidance. maybe it's time to realize that even you are more capable of making moral judgements than abraham, as you've at least made the concession that it could be "satan's voice."
According to the Bible, since there is a prohibition on child sacrifice and murder AND because we are instructed to discern between what you call "the voices" tell us to do and what is established as the will of God as set forth in the Bible, one may readily ignore "the voices" if they are instructing someone to do what is known to be evil. You're refusing to acknowledge the point of what God instructed Abraham to do.
i repeatedly avoid the subject of "the point" because "the point" was revealed after abraham tried to DO "what god instructed abraham to do."
you're refusing to acknowledge "what god instructed abraham to do." are you telling me that abraham did not know that sacrificing his own child was evil? how was it a test of faith, if he did not?
you can't have it both ways. either we are to obey god when he pops up in our head or we are to follow our morals (yours being defined by the bible). filicide is pretty evil.
Ah, but Abraham was a devoted follower of God from early on and because of the ways God revealed Himself to Abraham, that shows Abraham was also a prophet. So if Abraham knew God so intimately, Abraham would have known good and well that God would provide the sacrifice. And Abraham would have known God would not have allowed him to take Isaac's life. Further, even if Abraham DIDN'T know, there's the logical issue of God already revealing His intention for His chosen to be established through the lineage of Abraham and Sarah, i.e. Isaac, the only proper heir to Abraham rather than the son born to a slave. So if God knows everything and can reveal what He wants to whom He wants to reveal it, He can't reveal that Abraham's lineage will pass on through Isaac if Isaac is already dead. So regardless of whether Abraham already knows what God is going to do because Abraham is a prophet or whether Abraham reasoned it out, he knows that God will let Isaac live. Perhaps the point, then, whether or not ABRAHAM knows for Himself that God will show up at the right time. Abraham passed THIS test by trusting God, and because he believed that it was God who stopped him, he didn't go through with the sacrifice.
What I'm telling you is Abraham placed his faith in God to provide. He wouldn't have done anything evil, else he'd have known that whatever spirit was instructing him to do evil was NOT indeed God, nor any kind of good god worthy of obeisance. But since he knew that the instruction was from God, he had no doubts as to whether he was doing the right thing. And God, of course, revealed that his obedience was accepted and provided an appropriate animal sacrifice in Isaac's place.
And that is the point of Christian faith.
What I find unacceptable is disobedience that leads one to murder a child in the name of God when the Bible clearly shows that this is inappropriate.
Consider this: Someone mentioned a woman killing her child for thinking that child was the antichrist. What a crock... Look, according to the Bible, antichrist will come and no amount of human or Godly intervention will prevent that. So if someone murders the antichrist as a child, that person is standing in the way God's plan for the end times. Further, the one who takes the role of the antichrist is already known, whether he's been born yet or whether we have to wait another 2,000 years. Whatever. But what's plain is that while God knows the choices we can make, the same applies to antichrist. Thus the one who becomes antichrist will do so stemming from a choice he makes. Killing a child because you actually think "God said so" or because you're mental is plain wrong. If a spirit really is telling you to kill your child for WHATEVER reason, that spirit is not God or anything related to God.
What God wants in terms of personal revelation to His believers must be corroborated with scripture and in harmony with his conscience. The question in the topic title is "Great threat to morality?" Absolutely not. I say that Christians who read, understand, and apply the Bible to their lives are better prepared to speak and act as the conscience of society than those who aren't even spiritual.
you don't even seem to care that you contradict yourself and compromise your entire position.
Quote:
If a spirit really is telling you to kill your child for WHATEVER reason, that spirit is not God or anything related to God.
_________________
Waltur the Walrus Slayer,
Militant Asantist.
"BLASPHEMER!! !! !! !!" (according to AngelRho)
