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Human Cloning

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I am
opposed to human cloning 50%  50%  [ 15 ]
in favor of human cloning 50%  50%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 30

Sand
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10 Dec 2010, 11:19 pm

ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
ChrisVulcan wrote:
waltur wrote:
ChrisVulcan wrote:
waltur wrote:
why should a cloned human have any fewer rights? unless, of course, you're of the ridiculous mind that human rights are granted by some magical creature who disapproves of asexual reproduction.


While I liked your observation on the purposes of cloning, I won't tolerate offensive comments directed towards theists or any other group.



is this supposed to be a humorous remark?

who would like to step forward and say "i believe that human rights are granted by a magical creature who disapproves of asexual reproduction?"

seriously. you don't have to dig in my comments for insults. my insults are generally quite plain (balls of allah!). asexual reproduction is a rather popular method on earth, so even the most fundamentalist of theists do not believe in such a magical creature.

if your magical creature specifically opposes asexual reproduction of humans, let him say so. i find such a belief to be a sh***y definition of "human rights" and offensive to humanity.


I think you may have misunderstood me. I do believe that human rights are granted by a deity, but I don't believe that it disapproves of asexual reproduction, or (explicitly) of cloning.

(I say explicitly because you could make an argument that some verses have rules that could be used to apply to cloning, but that's another story)

My issue here is that you have painted people who potentially have these beliefs as childish and stupid. If you have an argument, I want to hear it. That's why I started this thread. But as soon as you start resorting to insults, you've lost the argument and embarassed yourself.


No doubt there are sparks of occasional capability in a few theists but one should not confuse sparks for a roaring fire.


According to my above comments, you lose.


There is apparently great glory in losing.



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11 Dec 2010, 12:02 am

ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
No doubt there are sparks of occasional capability in a few theists but one should not confuse sparks for a roaring fire.


According to my above comments, you lose.


If he doesnt follow your theistic law, why would he be particularly moved by your debate posturings?

Thats the problem with theists. You are endlessly compulsed to define the parameters by which everyone must operate.


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11 Dec 2010, 12:16 am

I normally back up what I say with reasoning or proof, but... it's just wrong. It's awkward on an unnatural level.



ChrisVulcan
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11 Dec 2010, 12:19 am

Sand wrote:
There is apparently great glory in losing.


Not following you.


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Sand
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11 Dec 2010, 2:14 am

ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
There is apparently great glory in losing.


Not following you.


I am not leading you.



ChrisVulcan
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11 Dec 2010, 2:50 am

Sand wrote:
ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
There is apparently great glory in losing.


Not following you.


I am not leading you.


I mean that I don't know what you meant by, "there is apparently great glory in losing".


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Sand
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11 Dec 2010, 3:43 am

ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
There is apparently great glory in losing.


Not following you.


I am not leading you.


I mean that I don't know what you meant by, "there is apparently great glory in losing".


It's a matter insight into relative values.



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11 Dec 2010, 7:25 am

I recently watched a documentary where these scientists were trying to see if they could use a woman's egg and put in any kind of DNA of the man instead of sperm cells, as a form of infertility treatment. They did manage to make embryos but the pregnancies kept failing. If we could use something similar as infertility treatment I think it's totally fine. If someone went and cloned a load of people to use as their minions for some evil world domination plan on the other hand, that wouldn't be very good. But who's going to do that, really?


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Sand
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11 Dec 2010, 7:28 am

MONKEY wrote:
I recently watched a documentary where these scientists were trying to see if they could use a woman's egg and put in any kind of DNA of the man instead of sperm cells, as a form of infertility treatment. They did manage to make embryos but the pregnancies kept failing. If we could use something similar as infertility treatment I think it's totally fine. If someone went and cloned a load of people to use as their minions for some evil world domination plan on the other hand, that wouldn't be very good. But who's going to do that, really?


Minions are on the market any day natural born for a price a lot cheaper than clones.



MONKEY
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11 Dec 2010, 7:31 am

Sand wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
I recently watched a documentary where these scientists were trying to see if they could use a woman's egg and put in any kind of DNA of the man instead of sperm cells, as a form of infertility treatment. They did manage to make embryos but the pregnancies kept failing. If we could use something similar as infertility treatment I think it's totally fine. If someone went and cloned a load of people to use as their minions for some evil world domination plan on the other hand, that wouldn't be very good. But who's going to do that, really?


Minions are on the market any day natural born for a price a lot cheaper than clones.


Yeah but cloning your minions would be cooler and would add to your super villain image.


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Sand
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11 Dec 2010, 8:12 am

MONKEY wrote:
Sand wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
I recently watched a documentary where these scientists were trying to see if they could use a woman's egg and put in any kind of DNA of the man instead of sperm cells, as a form of infertility treatment. They did manage to make embryos but the pregnancies kept failing. If we could use something similar as infertility treatment I think it's totally fine. If someone went and cloned a load of people to use as their minions for some evil world domination plan on the other hand, that wouldn't be very good. But who's going to do that, really?


Minions are on the market any day natural born for a price a lot cheaper than clones.


Yeah but cloning your minions would be cooler and would add to your super villain image.


Villains are a dime a dozen in this world and economy must be the concern for world domination. Some of the major nations well armed with nuclear weapons and back by millions of stupid aggressive idiots. You would have to mass produce a lot of clones and I doubt any vicious character has the finance. And why anyone would want to dominate this mess is beyond my conception.



MONKEY
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11 Dec 2010, 9:34 am

Sand wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
Sand wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
I recently watched a documentary where these scientists were trying to see if they could use a woman's egg and put in any kind of DNA of the man instead of sperm cells, as a form of infertility treatment. They did manage to make embryos but the pregnancies kept failing. If we could use something similar as infertility treatment I think it's totally fine. If someone went and cloned a load of people to use as their minions for some evil world domination plan on the other hand, that wouldn't be very good. But who's going to do that, really?


Minions are on the market any day natural born for a price a lot cheaper than clones.


Yeah but cloning your minions would be cooler and would add to your super villain image.


Villains are a dime a dozen in this world and economy must be the concern for world domination. Some of the major nations well armed with nuclear weapons and back by millions of stupid aggressive idiots. You would have to mass produce a lot of clones and I doubt any vicious character has the finance. And why anyone would want to dominate this mess is beyond my conception.

I imagine it would be very hard to dominate 6 billion people anyway, they could easily disobey your rules, some of these comic book villains haven't thought their plans through.
Speaking of nuclear weapons, what's the point in making them when some can wipe out whole populations, it's not like anyone would be willing to use them. They could have either A, not bothered or B, build some nuclear power stations so there is less fossil fuels. I think making nuclear weapons is the most irrational and crazy decision anyone has ever made.
Slight derail there....


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Sand
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11 Dec 2010, 10:04 am

MONKEY wrote:
Sand wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
Sand wrote:
MONKEY wrote:
I recently watched a documentary where these scientists were trying to see if they could use a woman's egg and put in any kind of DNA of the man instead of sperm cells, as a form of infertility treatment. They did manage to make embryos but the pregnancies kept failing. If we could use something similar as infertility treatment I think it's totally fine. If someone went and cloned a load of people to use as their minions for some evil world domination plan on the other hand, that wouldn't be very good. But who's going to do that, really?


Minions are on the market any day natural born for a price a lot cheaper than clones.


Yeah but cloning your minions would be cooler and would add to your super villain image.


Villains are a dime a dozen in this world and economy must be the concern for world domination. Some of the major nations well armed with nuclear weapons and back by millions of stupid aggressive idiots. You would have to mass produce a lot of clones and I doubt any vicious character has the finance. And why anyone would want to dominate this mess is beyond my conception.

I imagine it would be very hard to dominate 6 billion people anyway, they could easily disobey your rules, some of these comic book villains haven't thought their plans through.
Speaking of nuclear weapons, what's the point in making them when some can wipe out whole populations, it's not like anyone would be willing to use them. They could have either A, not bothered or B, build some nuclear power stations so there is less fossil fuels. I think making nuclear weapons is the most irrational and crazy decision anyone has ever made.
Slight derail there....


Well, Truman certainly enjoyed his big firecrackers. It was the fourth of July with the tempting and appetizing odor of roasting flesh.



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11 Dec 2010, 10:16 am

Personally, I'm opposed to the idea of cloning human beings. When it comes to nature verus nurture, I lean towards the latter. This may be because of the fact that I'm a bit of an existentialist. However, we still don't know whether certain habits, like smoking or writing, are passed down from generation to generation. I certainly didn't inherit my writing skills from my parents; it's a thing that I liked doing that just caught on.


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ChrisVulcan
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12 Dec 2010, 3:11 am

Sand wrote:
ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
There is apparently great glory in losing.


Not following you.


I am not leading you.


I mean that I don't know what you meant by, "there is apparently great glory in losing".


It's a matter insight into relative values.


So what you're saying is that you value squabbling and name-calling over real arguments?


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Sand
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12 Dec 2010, 3:41 am

ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
ChrisVulcan wrote:
Sand wrote:
There is apparently great glory in losing.


Not following you.


I am not leading you.


I mean that I don't know what you meant by, "there is apparently great glory in losing".


It's a matter insight into relative values.


So what you're saying is that you value squabbling and name-calling over real arguments?


I merely pointed out that theists display very little if any rationality and you told me I therefore am some sort of loser. I indicated that that kind of losing is no loss to me since we seem to have a different set of values. I see no squabbling there but religious people seem rather thin skinned about having the obvious pointed out to them. So be it.