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ikorack
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04 Feb 2011, 6:39 pm

misterjupiter wrote:
The statistics are available for download as pdf documents (in German) in but this forum won't allow me to post the link, because I have not enough posts yet:)

Quick summery:
6.054.330 recorded crimes in 2009. 55,6 percent solved.
Roughly 300.000 crimes under the influence of alcohol.
39 percent of all crimes were robberies.


Eh, post it later.



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04 Feb 2011, 6:41 pm

marshall wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
misterjupiter wrote:
Some years ago I was diagnosed with a severe borderline-personality-disorder. I had a lot of difficulty in my jobs and because of my mental condition was forced to quit my jobs, find a new one and eventually i got fired or had to quit...

It took me some time to get diagnosed and be treated with psychotherapy and I had to go to rehab for several months more than once. I can't imagine to live in a country without a general healthcare system or a social safety system there people like me might never get the change to live a normal life, because they can't afford to pay for medical care like mental hospitals or therapists and without these they might never be able to get a job and work again.


Mental illness is actually a big reason for our homeless problem. They can't get or hold a job, can't afford medical insurance and eventually lose their ID and what not and it's over for them...homeless and stranded.

It's easy to say that homelessness is just laziness or drugs but there's normally more of an underlying factor to it...mental illness.

And I'm surprised all the conservatives on this site don't realize this. I've also found that people of the conservative mindset are less tolerant concerning mental illness, more likely to think anyone can will themselves out of it or think that it's a character defect. If they had their way they'd probably want to send everyone who can't work to the gas chambers.


:roll:

I think I speak for most conservatives when I say you are deranged. Conservatives do recognize that there are some mental conditions, we also realize that sometimes things like ADHD are used as cop outs. It isn't a cut and dry issue, however the idea to kill someone simply because they may be wired differently in the head is just plain unethical.



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04 Feb 2011, 7:11 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
misterjupiter wrote:
Some years ago I was diagnosed with a severe borderline-personality-disorder. I had a lot of difficulty in my jobs and because of my mental condition was forced to quit my jobs, find a new one and eventually i got fired or had to quit...

It took me some time to get diagnosed and be treated with psychotherapy and I had to go to rehab for several months more than once. I can't imagine to live in a country without a general healthcare system or a social safety system there people like me might never get the change to live a normal life, because they can't afford to pay for medical care like mental hospitals or therapists and without these they might never be able to get a job and work again.


Mental illness is actually a big reason for our homeless problem. They can't get or hold a job, can't afford medical insurance and eventually lose their ID and what not and it's over for them...homeless and stranded.

It's easy to say that homelessness is just laziness or drugs but there's normally more of an underlying factor to it...mental illness.

And I'm surprised all the conservatives on this site don't realize this. I've also found that people of the conservative mindset are less tolerant concerning mental illness, more likely to think anyone can will themselves out of it or think that it's a character defect. If they had their way they'd probably want to send everyone who can't work to the gas chambers.


:roll:

I think I speak for most conservatives when I say you are deranged. Conservatives do recognize that there are some mental conditions, we also realize that sometimes things like ADHD are used as cop outs. It isn't a cut and dry issue, however the idea to kill someone simply because they may be wired differently in the head is just plain unethical.


I know for a fact that plenty of conservatives consider Asperger's to be a cop out. That evil cretin Sharron Angle in fact thought all services for (using quote motions with her fingers) autism should be cut. Just because you are more enlightened on the subject of being wired differently doesn't mean all conservatives are.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



misterjupiter
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04 Feb 2011, 9:28 pm

Free_Aspie wrote:
Whats most funny about this article, besides the obvious political bias, its the fact that in 2009 the social-democrats were DEFEATED by a liberal coalition (liberal means libertarian in Europe), the Free Democratic Party, so the Christian Democratic Union formed a new goverment with them, which basically means the very germans dont believe their state was that "fantastic"


True: the social democrats were indeed defeated. But you got it all wrong. First, we don't think the state was or is fantastic, we'll just try to solve the problems in our country. Second, the main reason for this political change were our foreign politics. The social democrats are a "yeah" saying political party in regards to american foreign politics. This had nothing to do with our healthcare or social security systems. All major parties support those elementary systems.

Quote:
Actually the NAZI social safety net was a very effective method of control by the state over its citizens.


It was a regime based on fear and terror. These social-safety institution during the "Drittes Reich" were meant to "bribe" the public to close their eyes and to make sure, that the people are willing to follow the regime. Just like the arena games during the Roman empire "bread and circuses". They also served as a means for controlling the citizens. A lot of the things are just plain propaganda. The nazis did no good at all. So there actually was no "social safety net" at all.

Quote:
A state subsidy payed with taxes is the same as a food stamp only under a different name.


Maybe, but it isn't humiliating. I think that is important.



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04 Feb 2011, 11:12 pm

I can't stand how the ghost of Nazism has to be brought up in regard to modern German society. The current German social net is not connected to the Nazis, at all. :x

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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04 Feb 2011, 11:14 pm

And German health care first passed in the 19th century. They've been improving on it and updating it for over 100 years. It certainly didnt begin with the Nazis.



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04 Feb 2011, 11:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I can't stand how the ghost of Nazism has to be brought up in regard to modern German society. The current German social net is not connected to the Nazis, at all. :x

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Couldn't agree more. It's still haunting us.



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05 Feb 2011, 2:44 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
misterjupiter wrote:
Some years ago I was diagnosed with a severe borderline-personality-disorder. I had a lot of difficulty in my jobs and because of my mental condition was forced to quit my jobs, find a new one and eventually i got fired or had to quit...

It took me some time to get diagnosed and be treated with psychotherapy and I had to go to rehab for several months more than once. I can't imagine to live in a country without a general healthcare system or a social safety system there people like me might never get the change to live a normal life, because they can't afford to pay for medical care like mental hospitals or therapists and without these they might never be able to get a job and work again.


Mental illness is actually a big reason for our homeless problem. They can't get or hold a job, can't afford medical insurance and eventually lose their ID and what not and it's over for them...homeless and stranded.

It's easy to say that homelessness is just laziness or drugs but there's normally more of an underlying factor to it...mental illness.

And I'm surprised all the conservatives on this site don't realize this. I've also found that people of the conservative mindset are less tolerant concerning mental illness, more likely to think anyone can will themselves out of it or think that it's a character defect. If they had their way they'd probably want to send everyone who can't work to the gas chambers.


:roll:

I think I speak for most conservatives when I say you are deranged. Conservatives do recognize that there are some mental conditions, we also realize that sometimes things like ADHD are used as cop outs. It isn't a cut and dry issue, however the idea to kill someone simply because they may be wired differently in the head is just plain unethical.


I know for a fact that plenty of conservatives consider Asperger's to be a cop out. That evil cretin Sharron Angle in fact thought all services for (using quote motions with her fingers) autism should be cut. Just because you are more enlightened on the subject of being wired differently doesn't mean all conservatives are.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Conservatives are more likely to try and harass and humiliate people with Asperger's and/or severe/chronic depression for relying on SSI after running into a brick wall in terms of trying to work. They are terrified that anyone might be getting a "free ride" off their tax dollars to the point where they would want to delegitimize certain disabilities and mental illnesses.



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05 Feb 2011, 4:00 am

misterjupiter wrote:
You're right. We Europeans have really a lot of problems with your relaxed view on violance. This means that a lot of US productions (not only movies or television series, but also computer games) must be edited for the European market to be sold.

The American view is definitely odd. People absolutely freak out if there's the hint of a bare breast on televison, but graphic violence in many forms and greusome scenes of dead bodies are just fine.



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05 Feb 2011, 4:24 am

LKL wrote:
misterjupiter wrote:
You're right. We Europeans have really a lot of problems with your relaxed view on violance. This means that a lot of US productions (not only movies or television series, but also computer games) must be edited for the European market to be sold.

The American view is definitely odd. People absolutely freak out if there's the hint of a bare breast on televison, but graphic violence in many forms and greusome scenes of dead bodies are just fine.


Yes, even as an American, I can see how that is definitely weird, not to mention unhealthy. All though to be sure, Europe has churned out its share of gore - think of Dario Argento's films.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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05 Feb 2011, 3:56 pm

I didn't mean to imply that Europe lacked Gore - just that American priorities are weird.
(edit: nor do I mean to imply that I know anything about European film gore, or much about American film gore for that matter; I get enough gore at work, and studiously avoid it in drama).



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05 Feb 2011, 4:39 pm

LKL wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that Europe lacked Gore - just that American priorities are weird.
(edit: nor do I mean to imply that I know anything about European film gore, or much about American film gore for that matter; I get enough gore at work, and studiously avoid it in drama).


Believe me, Europe has as much gore as the US. We just handle it different. We have serious age restrictions on media based on the amount of violence displayed to protect teens, regulated by government and law instead of the producing industry. European gore is much harder to access for teenager. Many things which are labeled 15+ in the US are actually for adults only in Europe, especially computer games.



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05 Feb 2011, 5:55 pm

sounds sensible.



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05 Feb 2011, 6:01 pm

Germany gotten to experience and perpetrate the worst of it through state manipulation and control of information. They are probably the only country treating $cientology appropriately for example. I think when they see parallels happening they have some justification in pointing it out


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07 Feb 2011, 10:16 am

misterjupiter wrote:
Quote:
Actually the NAZI social safety net was a very effective method of control by the state over its citizens.


It was a regime based on fear and terror. These social-safety institution during the "Drittes Reich" were meant to "bribe" the public to close their eyes and to make sure, that the people are willing to follow the regime. Just like the arena games during the Roman empire "bread and circuses". They also served as a means for controlling the citizens. A lot of the things are just plain propaganda. The nazis did no good at all. So there actually was no "social safety net" at all.



Kinda like the cheap oil serves as a means to control people here?


/back door to Godwin's Law


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misterjupiter
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07 Feb 2011, 11:33 am

skafather84 wrote:
misterjupiter wrote:
Quote:
Actually the NAZI social safety net was a very effective method of control by the state over its citizens.


It was a regime based on fear and terror. These social-safety institution during the "Drittes Reich" were meant to "bribe" the public to close their eyes and to make sure, that the people are willing to follow the regime. Just like the arena games during the Roman empire "bread and circuses". They also served as a means for controlling the citizens. A lot of the things are just plain propaganda. The nazis did no good at all. So there actually was no "social safety net" at all.



Kinda like the cheap oil serves as a means to control people here?]


I don't think it's about control in this case. I think US citizens aren't willing to pay as much as Germans for gas. Our high gas prize is a result of a lot of different environmental taxes.

Germany has a very high population density (593 people/sq mi) in comparison to the US (87.4 people/sq mi). We need to travel less miles a day (to work or school), so we need less gasoline. Then there is our very extensive public transportation system. We rely less on personal transportation than you. Almost everyone in Germany can reach the nearest bus - or train station in no more than 15 min by foot, or faster in most cases. Check out for yourself on wikipedia if you like.

Because of the general awareness for environmental issues and the lesser dependency on personal transport we're willing to pay more.