Important notice: Understanding attacks on homosexuality

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Natty_Boh
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23 Feb 2011, 3:11 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Natty_Boh wrote:

Or possibly I am giving a loose restatement of an offhand comment made weeks ago and not revisited. Obviously it was to the "wrong choir", i.e. someone who disagreed.

Sure, and I hope no critical or scolding tone came in there.

From me, back then? Again, obviously someone felt it was criticism enough to slap on the label 'bigot'. Doesn't mean it was, but - de gustibus. Mea maxima culpa. Etc.

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:14 pm

Natty_Boh wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Natty_Boh wrote:

Or possibly I am giving a loose restatement of an offhand comment made weeks ago and not revisited. Obviously it was to the "wrong choir", i.e. someone who disagreed.

Sure, and I hope no critical or scolding tone came in there.

From me, back then?

No, I was just not sure how my own post might have come through to you a few moments ago.

This might help: I am almost always only in the immediate.

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iamnotaparakeet
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23 Feb 2011, 3:14 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Natty_Boh wrote:

Or possibly I am giving a loose restatement of an offhand comment made weeks ago and not revisited. Obviously it was to the "wrong choir", i.e. someone who disagreed.

Sure, and I hope no critical or scolding tone came in there.

If Christians would just stop trying to change the world, at least some of the world would then stop trying to change them -- persecution exists without being dependent upon self-infliction -- and then we can/could all, Christian or not, just let God sort things out in the end like He is going to do anyway.

Actually, when I responded to Volodja's accusations of my supposed "latent homosexuality" I was not bothering to change the world. I don't give a darn about what people call themselves, that's up to them, I just am sick of the childish namecalling.

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23 Feb 2011, 3:14 pm

In my oppinion the church needs to change its views on homosexuality. While the church continues to see homosexuality as a sin, many religious people are going to accept the word of the church, and see homosexuality as a sin. This is the 21st century, surely we should above such nonsensesical views.

I'm sure the chiurch does a lot of great stuff, but sadly, because of its views on sexuality I find it hard not to see the church as a bigoted organization. I can only imagine how heartbreaking it must be to be a christian who is homosexual, and faced with the dilema of being who they are and "sinning", or repressing their true nature and remaining celibate, or living a lie and having hetero relationships which will surely cause pain all round.

iamnotaparakeet
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23 Feb 2011, 3:16 pm

Philologos wrote:

If somebody on the Schedule FEELS harassed,

SOMEBODY is harassing and MUST be identified.

Oy veh gevault, yeah, it is annoying when people dogmatically assume that their perceptions are equivalent to reality.

leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:16 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Actually, when I responded to Volodja's accusations of my supposed "latent homosexuality" I was not bothering to change the world ...

Fair enough, but now is the time to learn to stop saying stuff that might offend outside your own choir room.

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iamnotaparakeet
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23 Feb 2011, 3:17 pm

leejosepho wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Actually, when I responded to Volodja's accusations of my supposed "latent homosexuality" I was not bothering to change the world ...

Fair enough, but now is the time to learn to stop saying stuff that might offend outside your own choir room.

Mind if everyone else is required to stop simultaneously? Besides my response to Volodja and the other users who I then thought were also Volodja, but instead turned out to be his friends from I^2, how much "offensive" material have I actually said and had I said anything other than in response to people questioning my sexuality?

Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 23 Feb 2011, 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:17 pm

Butterflies wrote:

In my opinion the church needs to change its views on homosexuality.

Nah. It just needs to keep its views among its constituents.

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:19 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Oy veh gevault, yeah, it is annoying when people dogmatically assume that their perceptions are equivalent to reality.

What else would those opinions be within the own choir room?

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Natty_Boh
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23 Feb 2011, 3:19 pm

leejosepho wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Actually, when I responded to Volodja's accusations of my supposed "latent homosexuality" I was not bothering to change the world ...

Fair enough, but now is the time to learn to stop saying stuff that might offend outside your own choir room.

Lee, what then happens to 'going out and telling the good news'? Do we just say the non-offensive bits, and only until such time as they are deemed offensive? I do agree with you that faith can't be forced on a person; but faith can't be anything if it is not presented. And perception of offense is, as Parakeet says, not necessarily actual offense.

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AceOfSpades
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23 Feb 2011, 3:24 pm

leejosepho wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Oy veh gevault, yeah, it is annoying when people dogmatically assume that their perceptions are equivalent to reality.

What else would those opinions be within the own choir room?

As good as the walls that separate the choir room from the rest of the world once they break down.

Butterflies
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23 Feb 2011, 3:25 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Butterflies wrote:

In my opinion the church needs to change its views on homosexuality.

Nah. It just needs to keep its views among its constituents.

I'm not sure about that. The problem is that many of those constituants take those views, and use them in ways that cause hurt to others. If the church says homosexuality is a perversion, then many will see homosexuality as a perversion. That is not healthy.

Another problem is that a fair few of those constituants are likely to be homosexuals, feeling tortured and forced to live a lie. How many devout christians do you think are repressing their sexuality, and living their lives in torture, just because of the views of the church? It is so cruel.
(BTW that's a rhetorical question. I don't know the answer, and neither does anybody)

leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:28 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Mind if everyone else is required to stop simultaneously?

We can each stop our own selves at will ... and then it happens for everybody ...

Ever heard "Let it begin with me?"

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:31 pm

Natty_Boh wrote:

Lee, what then happens to 'going out and telling the good news'?

Think of Paul, the passive-aggressive opportunist, at Mars Hill, and think of the good Samaritan "out on the highways and byways."

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:36 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

As good as the walls that separate the choir room from the rest of the world once they break down.

Ah yes, serious problem.

I was once in a work-release center in an old church building with its vinyl accordion doors between our dorm rooms and an off-handed comment I made truly nearly got me killed when the guy on his own bunk at the backside of mine overheard what I had just said.

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leejosepho
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23 Feb 2011, 3:38 pm

Butterflies wrote:

The problem is that many of those constituents take those views ...

We agree. They need to keep those "views" or whatever within their own walls unless asked ...

edit: ... and even then, personally, I only mention anything in any way related after I am fairly certain a true point of need exists.

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