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Isaiah 7:14 and the Virginity of Mary, the Mother of Jesus

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Did Isaiah 7:14 accurately predict the mother of Jesus to be a virgin?
Isaiah nailed it! 17%  17%  [ 2 ]
Well, maybe 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
It was just an odd coincidence 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Absolutely not! 50%  50%  [ 6 ]
Just show the results 33%  33%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 12

ArrantPariah
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09 Jul 2012, 9:26 am

Resurrected for the benefits of Joker and AngelRho.



Delphiki
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09 Jul 2012, 9:34 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Resurrected for the benefits of Joker and AngelRho.
Joker was banned...


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ArrantPariah
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09 Jul 2012, 10:07 am

Delphiki wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Resurrected for the benefits of Joker and AngelRho.
Joker was banned...


Huh? Well, that was mysterious. We were just having a conversation relevant to this topic, and I thought that he would like to read some of the previous discussions.

Oh well, topic resurrected for the benefit of anyone interested, then. We were going down the Isaiah 7:14 path again, and rather than grasping at the same straws all over again (with some members who are newer and hadn't previously participated in similar debates), I thought that this would help the discussion, and bring everyone up to the same page.



Touretter
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09 Jul 2012, 2:19 pm

Almah refers to maiden. Betulah is the Hebrew word for virgin. http://www.outreachjudaism.org/articles/alma-virgin.html So the writers of the Septuigent really blew it, when they mistranslated the Hebrew scriptures into Greek. But as the Septuigent seems to affirm conventional Christian doctrines, such as the immaculate conception, Christians continue to use it.



ruveyn
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09 Jul 2012, 3:47 pm

Touretter wrote:
Almah refers to maiden. Betulah is the Hebrew word for virgin. http://www.outreachjudaism.org/articles/alma-virgin.html So the writers of the Septuigent really blew it, when they mistranslated the Hebrew scriptures into Greek. But as the Septuigent seems to affirm conventional Christian doctrines, such as the immaculate conception, Christians continue to use it.


They didn't blow it exactly. The Greek language did not have an exact word for -almah- so the word portenos (virgin) was substituted. And now you know the REST of the story!

ruveyn



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09 Jul 2012, 4:16 pm

A lot of the Bible has been lost/changed in translation. Who knows whether Isaiah originally read "maiden" or "virgin"? Back then, a maiden was presumed to be a virgin anyway, so the use of "maiden" might have been meant to imply "virgin".

At any rate, I think the only important reason to state that Mary was a virgin is that it rules out Joseph or any other man as a possible father. It's just a way of trying to establish paternity.



ArrantPariah
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09 Jul 2012, 4:23 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
A lot of the Bible has been lost/changed in translation. Who knows whether Isaiah originally read "maiden" or "virgin"? Back then, a maiden was presumed to be a virgin anyway, so the use of "maiden" might have been meant to imply "virgin".

At any rate, I think the only important reason to state that Mary was a virgin is that it rules out Joseph or any other man as a possible father. It's just a way of trying to establish paternity.


BUT, the genealogies of two of the gospels point to Joseph.



ruveyn
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09 Jul 2012, 4:26 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
A lot of the Bible has been lost/changed in translation. Who knows whether Isaiah originally read "maiden" or "virgin"? Back then, a maiden was presumed to be a virgin anyway, so the use of "maiden" might have been meant to imply "virgin".



Not in Hebrew. There is a word meaning a young woman of marriageable age and another word meaning virgin.

ruveyn



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10 Jul 2012, 9:15 am

Quote:
BUT, the genealogies of two of the gospels point to Joseph.


I don't know what verses you're referencing.


Quote:
Not in Hebrew. There is a word meaning a young woman of marriageable age and another word meaning virgin.


Young women who weren't virgins weren't usually marriage material, though. The fact that Mary was engaged implies that she was either a virgin, or at least thought to be one.



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10 Jul 2012, 9:57 am

Image


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ArrantPariah
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10 Jul 2012, 10:07 am

Vigilans wrote:
Image


:lmao:



ruveyn
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10 Jul 2012, 10:09 am

Vigilans wrote:
Image


You realize, don't you, that you are going to burn in Hell for eternity?

ruveyn



ArrantPariah
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10 Jul 2012, 10:17 am

ruveyn wrote:
You realize, don't you, that you are going to burn in Hell for eternity?

ruveyn


I see that AngelRho has finally converted Ruveyn. :wink:



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10 Jul 2012, 7:08 pm

I don't get the basis for the assumption of foreshadowing and hidden meanings.

What would the wording have to look like for there to be no doubt that it applied only to the matter at hand and not simultaneously making a second prophecy?

It's not as if it could have included a disclaimer saying "does not refer to Mary and Jesus", since that would amount to an explicit prophecy.


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ArrantPariah
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14 Jul 2012, 10:37 am

Pyrite wrote:
I don't get the basis for the assumption of foreshadowing and hidden meanings.

What would the wording have to look like for there to be no doubt that it applied only to the matter at hand and not simultaneously making a second prophecy?

It's not as if it could have included a disclaimer saying "does not refer to Mary and Jesus", since that would amount to an explicit prophecy.


The wording would be as it is, but without the mistranslations into Greek and subsequent languages.