France Bans The Burqa

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12 Apr 2011, 8:53 am

Why didn't they just call it a mask ban? I mean, who wants to walk down the street and see a bunch of people wearing balaclavas? Calling it a mask ban would also imply that the law is to promote security. Calling it a burqa ban implies religious discrimination.
Sometimes semantics DO matter.

JeremyNJ1984
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12 Apr 2011, 9:02 am

YippySkippy wrote:

How many people in Masks do you see on a regular basis walking around a city? come on...thats being too PC and doesn't address the issue...PLUS, by saying " Mask" you open it up for lawyers to chip away at the meaning of " Mask" allowing for legal loopholes for the burqa to exist.

phil777
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12 Apr 2011, 9:11 am

Tequila wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

No masks in public. No disguises in public. Everyone should be identifiable in public.

Have you heard of the likes of the Forward Intelligence Team here in the UK? People who go on demonstrations fear harassment and victimisation by police and their photographers if they go uncovered.

Ah yes, i believe i saw something to that affect in a documentary regarding riots between sports partisans in the UK.

It's pretty foggy in my memory though.

YippySkippy
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12 Apr 2011, 9:19 am

Lawyers could just as easily chip away at the definition of "burqa", even though everyone knows what a burqa is and what a mask is, too.

Bethie
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12 Apr 2011, 9:39 am

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Muslims are a significant minority in France now. Making sure they respect French law and its Secular based approach is critical. You can't have people in burqas...imagine a crime happened and you needed identification using video evidence...how about a routine police stop, how would cops handle a photo ID for drivers licenses and matching it up with the person driving the car. This is not Saudi Arabia, this is France. You moved there for a reason, and as a guest or a citizen you either took on the responsiblities or an oath of allegiance to the values of the state.

Secular means irrespective of religion, and officially banning religious garb would be the opposite.

If you needed an ID, ask them to LOWER THE BURKA FOR A MOMENT.

It's possible they moved to France to make a better life for themselves,
without knowing they'd later be forced to sacrifice their religious customs in order to do so.

"Deal with it or git out" is not an adult response to criticisms of the ethics or political justifications involved in the ban.

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12 Apr 2011, 9:48 am

Bethie wrote:

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Just because its " religious garb" doesn't mean its not open to critique when it comes to what concerns the public as a whole. Part of the reason the Burqa ban law is being put into effect is because muslim woman who wear it can not " lower the burka for a moment"..its against their religion to show their face to another man not their husband. Do Muslim woman get special status now under the law that all of us don't get? Should France bend over backwards to protect Muslim fundmentalists ( because that is what burqa wearing muslims are) who don't show the same respect toward other faiths? They should deal with it..they chose to move to France...I would never move somewhere and not respect the customs and laws. Mind you, these same people who wear the Burqas derive their religious and political beliefs in countries where you are not allowed to have another faith itself. They can't cry religious discrimination when they openly practice it themselves.

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12 Apr 2011, 9:59 am

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

Bethie
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12 Apr 2011, 10:00 am

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Imagine how their religion would see a woman who never wears it at all, then.

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Do Muslim woman get special status now under the law that all of us don't get?

No. They should have the same rights as everyone else to practice their religious beliefs without interference from the state.

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Should France bend over backwards to protect Muslim fundmentalists ( because that is what burqa wearing muslims are) who don't show the same respect toward other faiths?

State infringement on religious freedom is not somehow made just if said religion is perceived as intolerant.

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

They should deal with it..they chose to move to France...I would never move somewhere and not respect the customs and laws.

If the laws changed so that they violated a part of you central to your identity, and stripped you of your ability to follow teachings you held dear, I bet your ass you would.

JeremyNJ1984 wrote:

Mind you, these same people who wear the Burqas derive their religious and political beliefs in countries where you are not allowed to have another faith itself. They can't cry religious discrimination when they openly practice it themselves.

Them being perceived as hypocrites does not affect any right or non-right to ban the Burqa.

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12 Apr 2011, 10:01 am

cdfox7 wrote:

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

All the better to hide one's identity.

ruveyn

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12 Apr 2011, 10:04 am

ruveyn wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

All the better to hide one's identity.

ruveyn

Genocide is never the answer.

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ruveyn
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12 Apr 2011, 10:08 am

skafather84 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

All the better to hide one's identity.

ruveyn

Genocide is never the answer.

/I really shouldn't have to be telling this to a Jewish person

What does unmasking people have to do with genocide?

ruveyn

skafather84
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12 Apr 2011, 10:11 am

ruveyn wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

All the better to hide one's identity.

ruveyn

Genocide is never the answer.

/I really shouldn't have to be telling this to a Jewish person

What does unmasking people have to do with genocide?

ruveyn

Your unreasonable rhetoric targeting Muslims is consistent with the kind of rhetoric that ultimately leads to "eh, just kill them all". It's a prejudice against all for the actions of a few.

cdfox7
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12 Apr 2011, 10:12 am

ruveyn wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

All the better to hide one's identity.

ruveyn

In a way yes, the Islamic justification is express by the concept of Purdah.
Purdah the practice of concealing women from men.

skafather84
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12 Apr 2011, 10:15 am

cdfox7 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

All the better to hide one's identity.

ruveyn

In a way yes, the Islamic justification is express by the concept of Purdah.
Purdah the practice of concealing women from men.

And yet they're still able to fetishize women through all of that.

I have to wonder how much of this problem is too much libido.

cdfox7
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12 Apr 2011, 10:19 am

skafather84 wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

All the better to hide one's identity.

ruveyn

In a way yes, the Islamic justification is express by the concept of Purdah.
Purdah the practice of concealing women from men.

And yet they're still able to fetishize women through all of that.

I have to wonder how much of this problem is too much libido.

lol yes don't quote me on this tho I hear that in some Islamic countries you a get a temporary marriage that can last about a day or two for the peruse of gettting some sexual action.

Edit: just found it, its called Nikāḥ al-Mut‘ah

Last edited by cdfox7 on 12 Apr 2011, 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

skafather84
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12 Apr 2011, 10:21 am

cdfox7 wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

FYI I done a bit research into the Burqa, it consists of three items of Clothing.
The jilbāb is the body covering, the ḥijāb which is the head covering & the niqāb the face-veil.

All the better to hide one's identity.

ruveyn

In a way yes, the Islamic justification is express by the concept of Purdah.
Purdah the practice of concealing women from men.

And yet they're still able to fetishize women through all of that.

I have to wonder how much of this problem is too much libido.

lol yes don't quote me on this tho I hear that in some Islamic countries you a get a temporary marriage that can last about a day or two for the peruse of gettting some sexual action.

Sounds like a people who could use a few weeks on SSRI's.

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