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Jacoby
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25 May 2011, 9:33 am

Having never been dead, as far as I can recall, I'll get back to you when I do die. Or not. Either way it should provide some answers.



GammaGeek
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25 May 2011, 9:42 am

My religious beliefs do suggest that suffering after death is completely possible unless you go to "heaven". In the latter case, suffering is probably not gonna happen since in "heaven" there is no desires for things and therefore no reason to be suffering.

In short, no there is no suffering once life is over. Or at least that's what I think; I could be totally and completely mistaken.


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Awesomelyglorious
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25 May 2011, 12:21 pm

Philologos wrote:
Where was it demonstrated that items with no working nervous system [I assume we are both using more or less standard terminology] experience nothing?

It was proven that a working nervous system is needed to experience a variety of things. Without these nerves, none of that would be experienced. The sum of all of this would be nothing. The proof of working being needed is found in a number of people and other organisms, such as with pain, emotions, etc.



psychohist
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25 May 2011, 1:28 pm

Of course there's still suffering after you die. It's just that it's other people doing the suffering rather than you.



rasol
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28 May 2011, 5:04 pm

If the soul exists (and I know it does) the I believe you can still feel pain even after your body is dead but that pain is not physical anymore but mental and emotional.

A woman you loved that will never love you back and other SOs that you lost I believe that your soul can still feel that pain of loss and unrequited love even after physical death.

Professor M. R. Franks makes a very compelling argument for this theory in his book too:

http://www.manyuniverses.com/indexS.htm



Philologos
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28 May 2011, 6:28 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Where was it demonstrated that items with no working nervous system [I assume we are both using more or less standard terminology] experience nothing?

It was proven that a working nervous system is needed to experience a variety of things. Without these nerves, none of that would be experienced. The sum of all of this would be nothing. The proof of working being needed is found in a number of people and other organisms, such as with pain, emotions, etc.


Very intriguing that what I claim to have experienced and found confirmed in testimony of others is seen to be unverifiable and far fro empirical yet it has been DEMONSTRATED? that "experience" happens only to things with working nervous systems.

Have we a definition of "experience" available? And how exactly do we test for "experience" in a hagfish [which does have a limited nervous system]? If you think that is not enough, we can check the experiences of a sturgeon - fine by me.



Sand
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28 May 2011, 6:37 pm

Philologos wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Where was it demonstrated that items with no working nervous system [I assume we are both using more or less standard terminology] experience nothing?

It was proven that a working nervous system is needed to experience a variety of things. Without these nerves, none of that would be experienced. The sum of all of this would be nothing. The proof of working being needed is found in a number of people and other organisms, such as with pain, emotions, etc.


Very intriguing that what I claim to have experienced and found confirmed in testimony of others is seen to be unverifiable and far fro empirical yet it has been DEMONSTRATED? that "experience" happens only to things with working nervous systems.

Have we a definition of "experience" available? And how exactly do we test for "experience" in a hagfish [which does have a limited nervous system]? If you think that is not enough, we can check the experiences of a sturgeon - fine by me.


It has been shown that colonies of bacteria react to experience. Whether that indicates some sort of nervous system I wouldn't know.



Daedelus1138
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28 May 2011, 8:35 pm

Well, i think suffering after death is possible but more pertinent i think is the possibility of existential alienation (hell or something like it, not merely suffering, but suffering alone).

Somebody mentioned deep sleep. People have consciousness even there, though it is quite diffuse awarenes without thought, only consciousness. Yogis are about the only ones aware of this.



Sand
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28 May 2011, 8:42 pm

Daedelus1138 wrote:
Well, i think suffering after death is possible but more pertinent i think is the possibility of existential alienation (hell or something like it, not merely suffering, but suffering alone).

Somebody mentioned deep sleep. People have consciousness even there, though it is quite diffuse awarenes without thought, only consciousness. Yogis are about the only ones aware of this.


You are free, of course, to believe anything you want, a state demonstrated at this site with great frequency. Whether this has any relevance to reality as gained through experiment and validation is an entirely different matter.



danandlouie
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29 May 2011, 12:14 am

i have been dead, 4 times at that. quite interesting but no pain. pain is when stupid doctors revive you.

my thought is that only religious people feel pain when they die, to make up for all the suffering they cause when they are alive.



Sand
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29 May 2011, 12:27 am

danandlouie wrote:
i have been dead, 4 times at that. quite interesting but no pain. pain is when stupid doctors revive you.

my thought is that only religious people feel pain when they die, to make up for all the suffering they cause when they are alive.


We all have odd thoughts, don't we? Usually while sitting in a bus and looking out the window or waiting in a dentist's office where there are only women's magazines to peruse. But we get over them when reality intrudes. Like when the dentist calls you into his work room.



Daedelus1138
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29 May 2011, 3:13 am

Sand wrote:
You are free, of course, to believe anything you want, a state demonstrated at this site with great frequency. Whether this has any relevance to reality as gained through experiment and validation is an entirely different matter.


I don't I don't think everything must be verified empirically for it to be a justified belief. For instance you or I would find it impossible to prove that our senses are not lying to us and we are not in fact brains in vats. Most people people just take it as a basic belief that our senses accurately interpret reality, hence some beliefs do seem justified even with the absence of proof.



Sand
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29 May 2011, 5:07 am

Daedelus1138 wrote:
Sand wrote:
You are free, of course, to believe anything you want, a state demonstrated at this site with great frequency. Whether this has any relevance to reality as gained through experiment and validation is an entirely different matter.


I don't I don't think everything must be verified empirically for it to be a justified belief. For instance you or I would find it impossible to prove that our senses are not lying to us and we are not in fact brains in vats. Most people people just take it as a basic belief that our senses accurately interpret reality, hence some beliefs do seem justified even with the absence of proof.


Indeed we might be brains in vats but if we took that to heart and acted on it we would miss wonderful opportunities when we possibly found out we were wrong. We must act as best we can on the evidence of our senses since a total doubt of that leads to insanity.



simon_says
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29 May 2011, 5:49 am

About as much as I suffered in the year 1905. Remember that year? Me neither.



ruveyn
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29 May 2011, 12:33 pm

As Woody Allen said: It is not death I fear. It is being there when it happens.

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29 May 2011, 12:54 pm

Quote:
Is there still suffering after you die?

Only if there's reincarnation.


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