Homeopathy is stronger than antidepresants/antipsychotics

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This is where I'm tempted to leave well enough alone. There is a kind of spiritualism attached to homeopathy - I see it as just as valid as anyones religious beliefs. Actual homeopathic praticioners aren't just shams - they have a deep connection to what they are doing. I'd be tempted to compare true practicioners to shaman - their beliefs run that deep. I'm all about to each his own - and spiritual belief is a powerful thing even if you consider it as nothing more than placebo. The same holds true with reiki and - yes - with acupuncture. Just becasue science is just beginning to take these things a bit more seriously - mainly because they cannot refute the actual benefits of these treatments - they are starting to try to understand WHY they work.

That said - yes - there are complete charlatans taking advantage of scared and possibly ignorant people and selling them vials of water to treat their autistic children. Whereever you have desperate people you will always have the slime living under the rock of humanity seep out in order to feed off of their misery. There are all sorts of hoaxers taking advantage of people. I'm sure some claiming to be homeopaths are doing the same. The homeopaths I've met would never do such a thing. They certainly wouldn't promise a cure. Homeopathy is more focused on alleviating symptomology - not curing conditions.

If someone does find relief with a homeopathic remedy who's to say that there isn't something at work there that we do not understand? Twenty years ago acupuncture was thought to be all placebo too. I'm just saying keep an open mind but also keep your head on straight.

I don't think it was addicts who got ephedra taken off the market. I believe it was the FDA, after a handful of deaths were linked to the herb plus what I suspect to be a lot of commercial lobbying.

Addicts, though, have no institutional power to take products off the market.

And since I used it to medicate my ADHD, it bothers me too.

It was the addicts who used it to get a rush - and got themselves killed - who prompted the FDA ban...

Datura Stramonium homeopathic remedies all contains alkaloids which even at diluted concetration affect the mind. This is perfectly in accordance with Datura being a mind altering hallucinogen.

There is however a well known study (Schacter & Singer, 1962) performed a study on 184 college students on how symptoms came from a state of arousal. From this information, they designed a study that would give the participants a shot of epinephrine (adrenaline).Schachter and Singer then manipulated the participates by informing them in one of the three different ways: epinephrine informed, epinephrine ignorant, and epinephrine misinformed.

The subjects that were in the misinformed or ignorant condition behaved similar to the stooge. While those who were informed of the expected feelings had little to no emotion pattern. They found that when the subjects were informed the individual had a perfectly appropriate explanation for his or her feelings.

Participants who were in the misinformed or ignorant condition behaved similarly to the confederate, while those who were informed of the expected effects of the adrenaline showed no emotional pattern. This suggests that participants who were informed cognitively attributed their feelings to the physiological effects of the adrenaline, while the uninformed or misinformed groups could perform no such attribution and so interpreted the feelings as emotion. Schachter's cognitive labeling theory thus identifies "cognitive attribution," the mind's attempt to pair the feeling of arousal with its (inferred) causal pattern in the environment

@draelynn, the reason I am unwilling to "leave well enough alone" is that this could lead to the parents of an autistic child leaving their child untreated for years before there is any medical intervention, thereby ruining that child for life. People need to be informed not only that homeopathy does not work, but they also need to be informed that the first real medication they use will probably be a failure.

When I was put on Paxil for my Tourettes, it caused problems, and my parents had not been informed that the first drug tried on a poorly understood illness is as likely to be a nuisance in itself as to help. The second time out, I ended up on a combination therapy, and then they still couldn't understand why I claimed that I felt that one helped while the other was almost as much of a nuisance as the first drug.

Hopes that are based on illusions are for people who think they have a right to feel helpless in the face of adversity. Drugs that claim to "cure" a poorly understood illness are for people who believe they have a right to be ignorant when they are faced with the unknown. There are times when people deserve these luxuries, but it cannot be allowed in the case of severe developmental disorders.

If there is something hurting your child, you lose all right to feeling helpless, and you lose your right to live in ignorance and hope someone else solves the problem for you. This is the one time in your entire life that you are actually morally obligated to be mean, nasty, cynical and belligerent.

If a parent has a low- or mid-functioning autistic child, I expect that parent to be knocking down doors to get his or her child the most reliable care that money can buy. I don't see any alternative. I see copout crap like homeopathy as tantamount to criminal neglect, and I am uncompromising on this point. I have seen that hell, bought the t-shirt, wore it out, recycled it as a dust rag.

And yet you can state your own ignorance with certainty? How is your moralizing any less a delusion?

Since you brought it up:

And fully expecting certain ones to rate this as unintelligible and bizarre

And fully expecting certain ones to declare this insane and criminal

And fully expecting certain others to gnash teeth at the insult to their sacred cow:

Being a hard wired and wary skeptic on whom attempts to hypnotize fail, I tried a homeopathic remedy after seeing that months of test had done no harm to herself.

I found that it relieved AND removed - unlike the nose drops I was once adicted to, which let me breathe a few hours before the next dose - a symptom I had not mentioned in the workup and certainly did not expect to be addressed.

I have since found a number of effects BOTH positive and negative - do NOT believe homeopaths who tell you there can be no side effects! - that I for sure was noy anticipating.

Homeopathy as practiced by a competent and serious classical homeopath is - in its sphere, no medical modality works on everything - at least as effective as drug therapy and a sight less deleterious.

I have spoken. Do with it what you will.

Who cares if it's a placebo? Mind over matter. Always mind over matter. If it works, it works.

If someone can trick my brain into thinking taking water fixes my problems then that's awesome. I'd rather be stupidly healthy feeling than take some sh***y posionous drug, like the one I'm on. Pity it won't work now because I know it's water.

Other alternatives to drug therapy work better. Applied behavioral analysis and cognitive-behavioral therapy work very well.

Drug therapy by itself rarely works, anyway, in the case of autism. Drugs that work through the adrenergic, cholinergic and glutamatergic systems are actually showing promise of rendering some effect, though. If you're on SSRI therapy or typical antipsychotics, on the other hand, God save you.

Which drug are you on?

Look, the reason that it's so important to pop people's bubbles on this is that, if we don't curb this pseudoscience, it eventually will lead to causing harm. Pseudoscience left unchecked is a ticking bomb.

Maybe individual A isn't hurt by getting a placebo effect out of taking a drug that is really nothing but tap water. But then individual A goes on to tell individuals B, C and D that this tap water can actually work miracles that it can't.

And far too many parents have left their children suffering needlessly because they have chosen quack medicine and happy thoughts over substance. That isn't just stupid. It's immoral. To me, it is inexcusable. How dare someone choose to risk other people's health by choosing to live in willful ignorance, especially when it could cost some people their lives? I can't imagine anything so selfish. I see it as the lowest thing ever. It's sleazy.

In the case of human illness, I think that people are absolutely obligated to keep a firm grip on reality. Actually, I think that this applies especially to the expectation that drugs can solve all of your problems for you. If your therapist tries using drugs alone without combining them with therapeutic intervention, especially antipsychotics because these are powerful drugs that can directly alter your perception of reality, this goes for triple. To tell you the truth, I think that I would hold a therapist suspect if he wants to use drug therapy alone at all. If all a therapist does is write you a prescription, that's a pretty bad sign.

However, there are clinically tested methods out there that have objectively proven results. For example, mindfulness meditation has actually been observed under controlled conditions to improve not only your mental well-being but also your physical health. As far as nutritional supplements go, fish oil is actually fairly effective at reducing some symptoms of autism.

http://chp.sagepub.com/content/13/1/34.short

http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal. ... 06-3223(06)00591-9/abstract

Just because some of us are pointing out that one therapy is a crock doesn't mean that all alternative medicine lacks evidence of effectiveness. Alternative medicine per se isn't bad. But homeopathy is a sham. It's a joke, and you would have just as much luck with voo doo.

Alternatively:

http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2 ... pathy.html

The only way I would ever take another SSRI anti-depressant is if I was involintarily put in a psych ward and they force it on me....I find cannabis helpful though, but yeah I either need to get the medical marijuana card or find a job that does not test for that if I want to get a job.

Yeah, I think that SSRI therapy is wonderful in the right place, but I think it's toxic to some forms of autism. I know this is an opinion statement based on my personal experiences, but I'm still suffering shell-shock and recurring bad dreams from my really bad experience with Paxil. Jeeeeez. Luvox wasn't nearly as terrible, but I still say I need SSRI therapy like I need a hole in my head. I've had pretty good luck with some other drugs, though, one of them being amantadine--which I only know works because people get really mad and annoyed at me when I'm not on it, since I don't feel it working whatsoever--and the other being clonidine. I didn't like some of the side-effects of the clonidine, but it did what it was supposed to do, unlike the SSRI crap.

Good luck getting that card. I think that a lot of people can be helped by marijuana if it is being used appropriately. Personally, I don't like the stuff: it's like having cotton stuffed in my ears and shoved in down to my tonsils. Ewww. But really, good luck getting that card.

Last edited by WilliamWDelaney on 11 Jun 2011, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I had PTSD before I got on the anti-depressants....and yeah my experiance on anti-depressants made it worse I think. I am convinced it almost caused me to go psychotic or something....because basically I took them for about 3 and a half weeks and was kind of denying that they made me more anxious becuase I was hoping they would work. But yeah it got to the point where I got really paranoid, over emotional and had no control of my emotions. so I threw them out and did not take anymore. I wonder what would have happened if I had taken other peoples suggestions and kept taking them till I was 'used to it', I did not want to get used to that.

If parents of an autistic child are unwilling and lazy enough to NOT do their own research and are willing to just throw their money at whomever sticks a miracle cure in their face - I'd say the blame is on the parents there. The fact of the matter is - homeopathy DOES work for some people - reasons undetermined. Shelling out $15 to try a bottle of a homeopathic remedy is alot less invasive and immoral than hundreds to thousands of dollars on things that can be dangerous and even lethal things like chelation. And, it may have some effect. It certainly isn't a cure but, for some, it may bring some relief for specific symptoms. And, if it doesn't $15 isn't a huge deal.

I personally trust herbalism much more than most holistic approaches. It is specifically useful in anxiety, sleeplessness and mild depression. And, I'm inclined to consider Sweetleafs therapy of choice herbally based as well. Again, any holistic practicioner should be most willing and able to collaborate with your doctor, they should always ask you about all of your conditions and medications you may be taking because herbal remedies are counterindicated in some cases. Basically, the professional you consult about your health should be a PROFESSIONAL. If they are setting up a tent at the local 'cure autism' faire I'd be beyond wary.

Basically - if you've tried it and it didn't work for you - fine. You are certainly welcomed to your experiences and opinions. But if someone is coming out and saying something worked for them why on earth would you try and talk them OUT OF THAT? It doesn't matter if its mind over matter, placebo, or an actual effect that science hasn't measured yet. As long as they are not harming themselves, why try to tear down what works for them? And if you haven't tried it, I'm even less inclined to consider your opinion. You aren't even speaking from experience or as a clinician who's studied the subject.

And I totally agree with SSRI's. Evil evil stuff with more long lasting side effects than symptoms it treats. Well studied, widely used and they still cannot tell you exactly why they work. Hmmmm... that sounds familiar...

Oh, you don't. However, when I finally started refusing to take them, my parents were really really peeved, and they had to make an emergency appointment with the guy who prescribed them to me because the withdrawal symptoms disturbed them (heck, I didn't even notice them). The hell of it was that my parents got it into their heads that, as soon as I learned about my Tourettes, I just started using it as an excuse to run rampant, and at the same time I was being affected by the Paxil, which people now know is like toxic waste for people with Tourettes.

And, when I threw the Luvox down the toilet, my parents gave up on ME, and they formed the opinion that I just didn't WANT to be helped or ever get better. It took years for it to come home to them, well after I was an adult, that I might have been right about the drugs being part of the problem. They never admitted it openly, though, and that was a lasting stonewall between us until well after I had moved out of the house. They never voiced the admission that I HAD NOT deliberately manufactured my problems as an excuse for acting like a brat, and I hated them for it for a long time. Deeply and murderously. We're on speaking terms now, but it's a comfort to me that I have managed to get them to understand that, if this argument comes up, I will always win, and they will always run away. It's water under the bridge.

So I think part of the problem with trying to defeat pseudoscience, here, is that legitimate, well-meaning medical practitioners can get over-excited about a popular drug and try prescribing it for conditions that are irrelevant to their proper use. Sometimes legitimate medicine goes wrong for one reason or another, and this is something that pseudoscience vendors prey upon.