Are Jews Basically "Fellow Christians?"

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In those days the Israelites were as bad a** as the Muslims are today.

ruveyn

omg. I love to worry about if I'm going to make it into heaven someday, like totally.
Its serious business. so leave me alone

No worries. Just set up an automatic transfer of ten percent of your paycheck from your bank account to mine as a regular tithe, plus a little extra as offerings. I'll recite a few prayers, dance a jig, and butter up the Big Invisible Man for you. Your entry into Heaven will be guaranteed.

Since you clearly have access to a copy of the Old Testament - and if you did not you could get access to about anything you need at http://biblos.com/ - I suggest you read the relevant portions of the Pentateuch.

That, plus a little reading in history and anthropology - I would suggest focussing on the British Isles and North Africa for history, and for anthroplogy New Guinea and Brazil - will give you a solid footing in the data.

After which some reflection on human nature and some prayerful seeking of spiritual insight ought to get your question answered.

Don't thank me - you would have figured it out in due course.

Off topic flippancy ill becomes you. I try to respect your pandahood. I never mention bamboo breath.

That is from Hosea, yes? A day will come when you will call Me husband and not Boss (Ba'al).

I was thinking of the "dueling deities" on Mt. Carmel when Elijah humiliated the Ba'al worshipers.

First Kings Chapter 18.

ruveyn

C h r i s t i a n

Nope, I don't think so.

Cute. Efficient.

Okay, I've done all that. And the answer is:



Plus, the Baalites had no nuclear weapons, no air force, and no-one in America willing to send trillions of dollars their way.

They were a little too peace-loving.

I think you still have a way to go.

Start by thinking -

How many nations had nuclear weapons prior to 100 BC?

How do you know that the Canaanites were peace-loving? Those of whom we know anything - the people of Ugarit, the Carthaginians for example - certainly were not that peace-loving. Warships and war deities. Not bloedig lijkelig.

Why do you say Baalites, when the Canaanites were ethnically and linguistically diverse, with similar but distinct religious beliefs and practices, and when the various Baals - not Baal, this is not all the same god - are by no means necessarily the primary patron of a given town or tribe. There were some prominent goddesses as well, though the OT spends more time on Baalim than on Ashtaroth.

Further, your flip summation is essentially the same as my "because" - for which I was lam,basted by people who did not notice that I always expanded and explained "because" - which you have not.

If you wish to say that the Children of Israel were invasive Green Monkeys to the Canaanite natives, and the urban Canaanites Gren Monkeys to the near Bedouin Israelites, then say so. But I do not see that you have looked into the cultural gaps, or the economic issues, the pressures exerted on the region by Egypt and Mesopotamia, the ecology of the desert, or any of the factors that you need to rule out before opting for Green Monkey theory.

You still have time to turn this into a workmanlike analysis.

I am sure you do not want to be seen here as a flip lightweight.

There are key differences, but also profound similarities.

How is it that we have come through four pages on this discussion and no one has raised the issue of the other, "people of the book?"

One cannot have a discussion about whether or not Jews and Christians share a common worship of a deity without acknowledging that Islam cannot be isolated from that discussion. If Christians view Jews as their precursor, then how can they fail to acknowledge that they have, in turn, been supplanted by Islam? Or Baha'i, the Latter-Day Saints Movement or any of the other religions which are both monotheistic and Abrahamaic.

One might equally ask if Christians are "fellow Muslims." And perhaps one should ask that question.

To be sure, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have common roots. But they are each different religions, set apart from each other by fundamental differences. So Christians are no more Jews, or Jews are no more Christians than Protestants are really Catholics. In my humble opinion, those evangelical Christians who court Jews to the extant of saying that they don't need Christ's grace are doing so only because they believe they can get in on the ground level when Christ allegedly comes back to rule in Jerusalem. As I posted earlier, I believe even the most most stalwart Jews are going to have more respect for those Christians who stick to their Christocentric doctrine without being Antisemitic, than they would have for those evangelical brown nosers, whose Pro-Israel position has ulterior motives.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Okay.

So you wanna draw a line around christians and jews and claim that they are really the same religion. And you're gonna exclude all other religions, abrahamic and otherwise.

And you're claiming that "all misunderstandings will be cleared up in heaven".

And you're also claiming to not be anti-jewish.

Because of the differences between christainity and judaism there have to be some major 'misunderstangs" which means someone screwed up theologically.

But since you claim not to be antisemetic you cant lay all of the blame on the jews. So either christians are theologically in error, or both jews and christians messed up- and both have to take a step to the center to meet in the middle.

So (lets say its the last) all adherents of both faiths having been living lies.

But- god is cool with that- and will still let the faithful into heaven from both faiths.

That adds up to quite a radical concept.

You have to be a heretic and an outsider to both faiths to believe that -because it probably majorly violates the theologies of both religions.

When both Jews and christians join forces to gather the wood to burn you at the stake as the heretic you are-dont say I didnt warn you!

Amen!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Here speak I for me, though I respond to naturalplastic > Kraichgauer.

I say, no, they are not the same religion despite historical connections. To the extent that Jews. Christians, Muslims of all flavors, and others deal with God they deal with the same God regardless of theological differences, for there is but one.



I see no reason why one would do that. If one relates to the reality, it little matters what the details of the imagery



Sounds about right.



Being against this group or that group is very human and very stupid. This Jew is good - that plumber is bad - this poet is a wonderful person - that doglover is an absolute swine.

I personally disagree with people who are wrong and despise people who are despicable and admire those who think clearly and love the amiable.



God and eternity and Truth is a very big and complex elephant only a tiny corner of which fits in the Kosmos and we are all at least shortsighted and of low computational capacity. EVERY human formulation is wrong if only because incomplete.

However it is highly unlikely that the truth is in the middle. First, I would say that the Abrahamic religions are an infinitesimal tad closer to right than the IndoEuropean beliefs; secondly, truth is outside the Kosmos and will not work with cosmic geometries.



Not at all. That is a silly thing to say. Some members of religious organizations have been liars. Some have been deceived. Many adherents of all religions and many who have NOT been adherents of any religion or members of any religious organization have been following to the extent possible the signals from God.



Not a good formulation. My personal opinion is that it is not a being let in so much as a choice to go out. And we are not in my opinion talking about faith so much as understanding and attraction. And we are not - or I am not - talking "both faiths" - which sould be obvious from the above.



As I said way back I - and it would seem perhaps also my friend from the Kraichgau through which my ancestors passed on their way to evade religious persecution - am the Universal Heretic. Yes, it is a bit radical by theology, because most formal theologies come from people of the "smooth out the prickles so it makes sense" breed.

It is a pretty basic Christian teaching often hidden under the theologic shrubbery.

And of course it is why they crucified Jesus.