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Master_Pedant
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14 Aug 2011, 11:09 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Orwell wrote:
You're avoiding the issue. You claimed the majority of our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq are being killed by Iranian weapons. This is an absolute crock of crap. Admit it, and we can move on.


No, you are asking me to lie.

Citing unnamed US officials, the newspaper said the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps has supplied its allies with rocket-assisted exploding projectiles, which have already killed American troops.

The officials said Iranians had also given long-range rockets to the Taliban in Afghanistan, increasing the insurgents’ ability to hit US and other coalition positions from a safer distance, the report said.

“I think we are likely to see these Iranian-backed groups continue to maintain high attack levels,” Major General James Buchanan, the top US military spokesman in Iraq, told The Journal. “But they are not going to deter us from doing everything we can to help the Iraqi security forces.”

Violence killed more Iraqis last month than at any time since September, figures showed on Friday after the US reported deaths that also made June the deadliest month for its troops in Iraq for three years.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/200962/iran ... an-report/


Once again, con artist conservatives fail basic reading.

Orwell is claiming that a majority of the fatalities ARE NOT caused by Iranian weapons and not the stronger claim that none of the fatalities are caused by Iranian weapons.

LEARN TO READ - and, for that matter - LEARN TO THINK!


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Inuyasha
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14 Aug 2011, 11:24 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Orwell wrote:
You're avoiding the issue. You claimed the majority of our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq are being killed by Iranian weapons. This is an absolute crock of crap. Admit it, and we can move on.


No, you are asking me to lie.

Citing unnamed US officials, the newspaper said the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps has supplied its allies with rocket-assisted exploding projectiles, which have already killed American troops.

The officials said Iranians had also given long-range rockets to the Taliban in Afghanistan, increasing the insurgents’ ability to hit US and other coalition positions from a safer distance, the report said.

“I think we are likely to see these Iranian-backed groups continue to maintain high attack levels,” Major General James Buchanan, the top US military spokesman in Iraq, told The Journal. “But they are not going to deter us from doing everything we can to help the Iraqi security forces.”

Violence killed more Iraqis last month than at any time since September, figures showed on Friday after the US reported deaths that also made June the deadliest month for its troops in Iraq for three years.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/200962/iran ... an-report/


Once again, con artist conservatives fail basic reading.

Orwell is claiming that a majority of the fatalities ARE NOT caused by Iranian weapons and not the stronger claim that none of the fatalities are caused by Iranian weapons.

LEARN TO READ - and, for that matter - LEARN TO THINK!


Most of our fatalities have been from IEDs that were supplied by Iran...



91
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14 Aug 2011, 11:32 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Most of our fatalities have been from IEDs that were supplied by Iran...


That sounds like a more reasonable claim. I am not sure we can say with certainty that the majority of IED's come from Iran (though I am open to something definitive), certainly a large amount do, also a large amount of explosives also flows in from Pakistan. However, there are far more weapons of other forms than there are IED's, so being specific, which Aspies are, you seem to be backing down from your original claim about the majority of 'weapons'. The majority of 'fatalities', 'IEDs' and 'weapons' are not the same thing.


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Inuyasha
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14 Aug 2011, 11:40 pm

91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Most of our fatalities have been from IEDs that were supplied by Iran...


That sounds like a more reasonable claim. I am not sure we can say with certainty that the majority of IED's come from Iran (though I am open to something definitive), certainly a large amount do, also a large amount of explosives also flows in from Pakistan. However, there are far more weapons of other forms than there are IED's, so being specific, which Aspies are, you seem to be backing down from your original claim about the majority of 'weapons'. The majority of 'fatalities', 'IEDs' and 'weapons' are not the same thing.


An improvised explosive device is a weapon.



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14 Aug 2011, 11:50 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Most of our fatalities have been from IEDs that were supplied by Iran...


That sounds like a more reasonable claim. I am not sure we can say with certainty that the majority of IED's come from Iran (though I am open to something definitive), certainly a large amount do, also a large amount of explosives also flows in from Pakistan. However, there are far more weapons of other forms than there are IED's, so being specific, which Aspies are, you seem to be backing down from your original claim about the majority of 'weapons'. The majority of 'fatalities', 'IEDs' and 'weapons' are not the same thing.


An improvised explosive device is a weapon.


But not all weapons are IEDs, neither are the majority of weapons in Afghanistan IEDs.


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14 Aug 2011, 11:54 pm

91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Most of our fatalities have been from IEDs that were supplied by Iran...


That sounds like a more reasonable claim. I am not sure we can say with certainty that the majority of IED's come from Iran (though I am open to something definitive), certainly a large amount do, also a large amount of explosives also flows in from Pakistan. However, there are far more weapons of other forms than there are IED's, so being specific, which Aspies are, you seem to be backing down from your original claim about the majority of 'weapons'. The majority of 'fatalities', 'IEDs' and 'weapons' are not the same thing.


An improvised explosive device is a weapon.


But not all weapons are IEDs, neither are the majority of weapons in Afghanistan IEDs.


I never claimed the majority of the weapons were IEDs, however small arms fire is generally ineffective against armored vehicles.



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14 Aug 2011, 11:56 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
I never claimed the majority of the weapons were IEDs, however small arms fire is generally ineffective against armored vehicles.


You claimed the majority of weapons were from Iran.


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14 Aug 2011, 11:58 pm

91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I never claimed the majority of the weapons were IEDs, however small arms fire is generally ineffective against armored vehicles.


You claimed the majority of weapons were from Iran.


Last I checked Iraq didn't neighbor Pakistan.



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15 Aug 2011, 12:17 am

Inuyasha wrote:
91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I never claimed the majority of the weapons were IEDs, however small arms fire is generally ineffective against armored vehicles.


You claimed the majority of weapons were from Iran.


Last I checked Iraq didn't neighbor Pakistan.


Your point? You are now arguing in circles. If you think the majority of weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan come from Iran you need to give me more than shifty answer and the fact that they share a mutual border. I never claimed that the majority of weapons in Iraq came from Pakistan. I claimed that a large amount of the weapons in Afghanistan are from Pakistan. I also agreed that there certainly are weapons in both from Iran. Please do not misrepresent my views... it is disingenuous.


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15 Aug 2011, 12:24 am

91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I never claimed the majority of the weapons were IEDs, however small arms fire is generally ineffective against armored vehicles.


You claimed the majority of weapons were from Iran.


Last I checked Iraq didn't neighbor Pakistan.


Your point? You are now arguing in circles. If you think the majority of weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan come from Iran you need to give me more than shifty answer and the fact that they share a mutual border. I never claimed that the majority of weapons in Iraq came from Pakistan. I claimed that a large amount of the weapons in Afghanistan are from Pakistan. I also agreed that there certainly are weapons in both from Iran. Please do not misrepresent my views... it is disingenuous.


I was referring to both Iraq and Afghanistan overall, I was not referring to the two countries seperately.



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15 Aug 2011, 12:28 am

Inuyasha wrote:
91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
91 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I never claimed the majority of the weapons were IEDs, however small arms fire is generally ineffective against armored vehicles.


You claimed the majority of weapons were from Iran.


Last I checked Iraq didn't neighbor Pakistan.


Your point? You are now arguing in circles. If you think the majority of weapons in Iraq and Afghanistan come from Iran you need to give me more than shifty answer and the fact that they share a mutual border. I never claimed that the majority of weapons in Iraq came from Pakistan. I claimed that a large amount of the weapons in Afghanistan are from Pakistan. I also agreed that there certainly are weapons in both from Iran. Please do not misrepresent my views... it is disingenuous.


I was referring to both Iraq and Afghanistan overall, I was not referring to the two countries seperately.


Your point? Are you claiming that if I talk about the source of weapons to Afghanistan separately I will somehow deduce the wrong majority numbers? Or are you claiming that they MUST share a common source for the majority of their weapons? I usually find your posts interesting but on this you are totally off. Time to back down or put forward some evidence for your claim.


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15 Aug 2011, 12:52 am

91 wrote:
But not all weapons are IEDs, neither are the majority of weapons in Afghanistan IEDs.

The majority of insurgent-caused fatalities in Afghanistan (that is, excluding friendly fire, accidents, etc) are from IED attacks. In Iraq, if I recall correctly, the situation is slightly different and a lower proportion of fatalities are from IEDs.

Inuyasha wrote:
Most of our fatalities have been from IEDs that were supplied by Iran...

Your source only mentioned RPG launchers as being supplied by Iran. RPGs are not IEDs, nor do they account for a very large percentage of overall troop casualties. Certainly not anywhere near a majority. You have presented no evidence that IEDs are being imported from Iran, and I reiterate, by the very nature of an improvised explosive device, you would typically expect it to be something that was produced locally.

Quote:
I never claimed the majority of the weapons were IEDs, however small arms fire is generally ineffective against armored vehicles.

You seem to be conflating RPG with IED. For the record, small arms fire actually accounts for significantly more casualties than rockets.


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15 Aug 2011, 4:19 am

Orwell wrote:
91 wrote:
But not all weapons are IEDs, neither are the majority of weapons in Afghanistan IEDs.

The majority of insurgent-caused fatalities in Afghanistan (that is, excluding friendly fire, accidents, etc) are from IED attacks. In Iraq, if I recall correctly, the situation is slightly different and a lower proportion of fatalities are from IEDs.


I agree;
My stats may be out of date. But from 2007, in Iraq the casualty rate from IEDs was 3/5 in Afghanistan it was about 1/4 but that changed to around 3/4 by 2009.


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15 Aug 2011, 9:14 am

I support Rick Parry—with an A for America and Iowa.



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15 Aug 2011, 9:15 am

NeantHumain wrote:
I support Rick Parry—with an A for America and Iowa.


:D



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15 Aug 2011, 12:17 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
I support Rick Parry—with an A for America and Iowa.


Perry is a Jesus Freak who believes that God speaks to him. I have no problem with people who speak to God. I do that myself sometimes. I have a BIG problem with people who claim God speaks to them. Either they are liars, or more seriously, they are speaking the truth which means they are insane.

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