College Students Favoring Wealth Distribution Are Asked.....

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Sweetleaf
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19 Aug 2011, 3:04 pm

Fnord wrote:

Isn't it funny how those with little or no income of their own feel that they should be entitled to the income of those who make more?

Actually, no ... it isn't ... it's not funny at all ...

Well maybe they don't feel they should be left to die...say like there where no social programs at all no food stamps, no disability income, no medicaid or medicare, no ambulance service ect. how would the people who cannot afford those nessesities survive without programs to help them?

The only way to help those people for the most part is people giving money to chairity programs and tax money going to public services...there probably would never be enough charity to depend on so taxes are needed. so maybe that is why some of these people feel like they should be entitled to help that yes(comes from other peoples money). But no we are all a bunch of jealous, greedy people who just want to 'steal' other peoples money for the hell of it...none of us are reasonable individuals who just want to have access to basic nessesities and maybe a few things they enjoy.

Sweetleaf
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19 Aug 2011, 3:15 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

Orwell wrote:

The town immediately to the north of my home was dirt poor. No one from that school- no one- has the same chances I had. The best any of them could hope for was getting into a community college or one of the big, impersonal state schools. People in that town are not any less intelligent than those where I grew up. Probably there are a couple people there smarter than me, but we will never know it. They were born poor, and they will remain poor or at best middle-class for the rest of their lives.

I went into college straight out of high school, and promptly flunked out. It was a lack of effort, not a lack of intelligence. My parents would have paid my way through college entirely.

I ended up joining the military, and stayed in for 10 years. When I got out, I had both GI Bill and significant savings to draw on, with which I can pay my own way through college. I am now going through college with a good GPA.

Anyone who is able to join the military could have taken advantage of that opportunity, even though not everyone has parents who can pay their way.

Quote:

My roommate sophomore year was an idiot- he managed to fail the lowest econ course offered. As soon as he graduates, a family friend is simply handing over ownership of a company to him.

Hopefully he'll be smart enough to let someone else actually run the company.

Quote:

If you're born in the slums, there is very little way out.

BS.

One of my bosses in the military was offered a choice between joining the military and going to prison, because he had shot someone (not fatally). He was one of the most respected guys at that command.

More than one person in the military remarked that all of their old friends were either dead or in jail, and that they would be too, if they hadn't left.

The military doesn't care if you came from a run down slum or a nice quiet small town.

Not everyone can join the military...not everyone is fit for the military, not everyone can be made to be fit for the military.....it is one way someone can possibly get out of the slum, but even then it does not always work out that way.

Ancalagon
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19 Aug 2011, 3:16 pm

Janissy wrote:

Brilliance isn't actually a form of work.

QFT

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Ancalagon
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19 Aug 2011, 3:18 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

True enough, but I am sure there are other ways. This just happens to be one I know about firsthand.

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Sweetleaf
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19 Aug 2011, 3:24 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

True enough, but I am sure there are other ways. This just happens to be one I know about firsthand.

No matter how you slice it there are some who don't have a way to get out of the slum.....its not like you go out and work your ass off and are garanteed any sort of financial success.

androbot2084
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19 Aug 2011, 3:24 pm

Shoot someone and the Judge tells you to join the military and you learn how to shoot more people.

Ancalagon
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19 Aug 2011, 3:26 pm

androbot2084 wrote:

Shoot someone and the Judge tells you to join the military and you learn how to shoot more people.

It was in the Navy. Shooting people was not involved.

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AceOfSpades
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19 Aug 2011, 3:33 pm

Fnord wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

... If I were to be required to spend time tutoring low GPA students, it would matter greatly to me what kind of low GPA student we're talking about. If it's a slacker who wants someone smart to do their homework for free, I'd find it quite objectionable. If it's someone who works their butt off but doesn't quite get all the concepts all the time, I'd enjoy it.

Amen! Preach it! I've had too many students who wanted only the answers to the next exam, and who tried to cause trouble for me when I tried to show them how to determine the answers for themselves. Give a man a fish, and you've fed him for a day. Try to teach a man to fish, and he'll flay you alive with your best skinning knife for not giving him another fish for free.

And this has jack sh** to do with why the analogy is a massive false equivalency.

Who died and made your opinions so important that I should consider them valid?

Did I use any appeals to credibility to back up my arguments here? Nope so looks like your question is irrelevant and the only thing it is relevant to is projecting your douchebaggery onto me.

Here's why the analogy is crap: The more social dynamics are involved, the more the outcome depends on the discretion of others. There are much more social dynamics involved in income than in grades. So this means "Wealth redistribution" is a false equivalency to redistributing grades. The purpose of wealth redistribution is to not just provide for people's means to needs but to secure them. Otherwise their means to needs stands on shaky ground and are at the mercy of the discretion of others. This is more like setting up a sturdy dock that can be relied on not to fall apart than it is giving fishes away.

Orwell
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19 Aug 2011, 3:38 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

Is this dude the third generation of his family's wealth? If so don't worry about him remaining rich for the rest of his life. He's probably known nothing but prosperity and lays down at the first sign of adversity so his sense of entitlement should blow up in his face somewhere down the road.

I don't know. His father is an extremely wealthy surgeon. I doubt his father grew up in the ghetto, but I don't have a detailed family history. Right, he has never known anything but easy life and prosperity, and he does quickly give up when faced with any challenge. But he has enough connections that he will likely remain wealthy. He intends to become a Republican Senator.

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Orwell
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19 Aug 2011, 3:47 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

I went into college straight out of high school, and promptly flunked out. It was a lack of effort, not a lack of intelligence. My parents would have paid my way through college entirely.

And there's an example of something being decided by merit. You were given a chance, and by your own admission blew it. Others don't even get a chance.

Quote:

I ended up joining the military, and stayed in for 10 years. When I got out, I had both GI Bill and significant savings to draw on, with which I can pay my own way through college. I am now going through college with a good GPA.

Anyone who is able to join the military could have taken advantage of that opportunity, even though not everyone has parents who can pay their way.

The poor school I referenced has almost all its walls plastered over with military recruiting posters. I am aware of the economic draft. A few points though:
1) I did not have to put my life on the line for a chance to be allowed to work toward a decent life. That opportunity was given to me because of where I was born and who my parents were.
2) The military's support for the education of enlistees has declined. When a recruiter in high school was trying to sell me on joining the army, he showed me the financial support they offered. What a joke- it wouldn't even have covered the expenses at the local public university.
3) The delay in being able to get started on a post-secondary education brought on by military service can be a significant impediment for a lot of people. Even if the military were more generous in funding servicemen's educations, it would not level the playing field at all.

Quote:

The military doesn't care if you came from a run down slum or a nice quiet small town.

OK? The military's not for everyone. And saying that everything is fine and dandy because it is possible for poor people to risk their life in the army for a chance to crawl out of the slums is not an acceptable answer to the problem.

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Ancalagon
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19 Aug 2011, 5:04 pm

Orwell wrote:

2) The military's support for the education of enlistees has declined. When a recruiter in high school was trying to sell me on joining the army, he showed me the financial support they offered. What a joke- it wouldn't even have covered the expenses at the local public university.

When I went in, the Mongomery GI Bill was what was offered. By the time I got out, they offered the 9/11 GI Bill. The 9/11 GI Bill is (almost always) a much better deal.

The 9/11 Bill pays for housing, pays $1000 per year for books, and pays tuition up to what the most expensive state university charges.

Quote:

3) The delay in being able to get started on a post-secondary education brought on by military service can be a significant impediment for a lot of people.

I stayed in 10 years because I needed to gain some maturity. The requirement for full 9/11 GI Bill benefits is much less.

I never said it was without delay. You said that nobody from a poor town could go to college or escape poverty. That's not true.

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marshall
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19 Aug 2011, 5:32 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

I never said it was without delay. You said that nobody from a poor town could go to college or escape poverty. That's not true.

Actually he never said that. This is the problem with "debates" such as this. People don't bother to address anything other than the strawmen they make up. It's like you're not even trying.

Ancalagon
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19 Aug 2011, 6:04 pm

marshall wrote:

Ancalagon wrote:

I never said it was without delay. You said that nobody from a poor town could go to college or escape poverty. That's not true.

Actually he never said that. This is the problem with "debates" such as this. People don't bother to address anything other than the strawmen they make up. It's like you're not even trying.

This is what he said:

Quote:

They were born poor, and they will remain poor or at best middle-class for the rest of their lives.

Quote:

If you're born in the slums, there is very little way out.

If I misrepresented his position, it was not by much.

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Inuyasha
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19 Aug 2011, 6:19 pm

pandabear wrote:

URtheALIEN wrote:

pandabear wrote:

Your source has already been discredited multiple times.

What source did he cite and what was the discrediting?

Fox News. No-one of any intelligence believes any report from Fox News. Fox News simply isn't a credible news source.

Well considering you guys seem to be unable to grasp how the analogy is relevent comparing spreading the wealth around with spreading your GPA around, I think your statement has just been debunked.

Oh isn't one of your star witnesses in danger of losing its tax exempt status, specifically media matters?

Ancalagon wrote:

marshall wrote:

Quote:

If you're born in the slums, there is very little way out.

If I misrepresented his position, it was not by much.

Oh btw, there is a man that works at Fox Business, that would disagree with the notion that there is no way out, because he was born in a slum and through hard work he now is rather successful.

androbot2084
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19 Aug 2011, 6:25 pm

So I guess Inuyasha wants College students to burn their bibles because it promotes evil socialized medicine.

Inuyasha
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19 Aug 2011, 6:29 pm

androbot2084 wrote:

So I guess Inuyasha wants College students to burn their bibles because it promotes evil socialized medicine.

The Bible doesn't promote socialized medicine. Choosing to help someone with your own time and money, is not the same as spending somebody else's money.

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