is social security a ponzi scheme

Page 4 of 5 [ 78 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

11 Oct 2011, 3:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

A Ponzi Scheme is a device whereby a person accepts money and promises to deliver a product. The scheme is to them make other people give their money to the people above in the Ponzi Hierarchy and thus get access to the non-existent product.

Social Provision is where a government uses taxes to pay for services that act as a safety net for the poor or for redistribution.

.

It still comes down to plundering the best to help the less good.

Taxation is theft. Let us have as little of it as possible.

ruveyn

This would be true if the top "earners" where in someway noticeably "better" than the people working in their factories
or businesses.

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

11 Oct 2011, 5:57 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

It still comes down to plundering the best to help the less good.

Taxation is theft. Let us have as little of it as possible.

ruveyn

What makes them less good? I thought the core of western civilization was the belief that all human beings are of equal worth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Oct 2011, 6:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

What makes them less good? I thought the core of western civilization was the belief that all human beings are of equal worth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Dumber, lazier, less ambitious, less focused. We are not all equal.

Each of us should be free to seek the level at which we operate optimally.

ruveyn

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

11 Oct 2011, 6:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

What makes them less good? I thought the core of western civilization was the belief that all human beings are of equal worth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Dumber, lazier, less ambitious, less focused. We are not all equal.

Each of us should be free to seek the level at which we operate optimally.

ruveyn

Regardless, we're still of equal worth - no one can tell me that we aren't.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Oct 2011, 6:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Regardless, we're still of equal worth - no one can tell me that we aren't.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Be honest. What do you think when you trip over a wino bum lying in the street with his britches full of sh*t?

I do not have your gift of empathy and compassion. I was born to be both hard hearted and hard headed.

ruveyn

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

11 Oct 2011, 7:05 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Regardless, we're still of equal worth - no one can tell me that we aren't.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

No, to my discredit, I probably wouldn't always think that about that wino. But I probably should.

I don't know if I was born with such empathy and compassion, but I like to think that it was instilled in me by my family, church, and the educational system.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

11 Oct 2011, 8:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I am impervious to Brain Washing. Even my oh so liberal full of mercy Jewish upbringing did not take.

ruveyn

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

11 Oct 2011, 8:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

What makes them less good? I thought the core of western civilization was the belief that all human beings are of equal worth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Dumber, lazier, less ambitious, less focused. We are not all equal.

Each of us should be free to seek the level at which we operate optimally.

ruveyn

we are not all aforded the same chances and opertunities,
in most scandinavien countries i would bet there is a lot more equal footing for people to start off from,
your parents economical status has nothing to do with what educations are available to you for an example (well real educations anyway)
if people are not continually in activation they do not apply for social security.

people often blame the concept and not the people implementing it, in reality i think the people play a larger part in why it doesnt work in some cases.

_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

11 Oct 2011, 11:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I am impervious to Brain Washing. Even my oh so liberal full of mercy Jewish upbringing did not take.

ruveyn

And so it goes.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Tadzio
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2009
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 877

12 Oct 2011, 1:53 am

ruveyn wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

It still comes down to plundering the best to help the less good.

Taxation is theft. Let us have as little of it as possible.

ruveyn

Naughty, Naughty, Naughty!! !

This seems to go beyond Camus and his Peacock feather choosing not to see.

Maybe it's a good thing that the final couple of episodes of "Seinfeld" was about the generally fictional U.S.A. with fictional laws of "Duty To Rescue".

Setting the judgement of "Brave Captain" for Life-Boat Ethics in "Abandon Ship!", with the bitter elixir of Ayn Rand, what a packed and pickled boat!! ! http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/art ... _poor.html

With current politics, this is a version of the old joke about Ford, Nixon, and Clinton being on board a larger yacht for charity excursions with single mothers and their daughters, and when the boat suddenly starts to sink, Ford yells out to load the lifeboat & women and children first, then stumbles and falls overboard, with Nixon taking over and jumping into the lifeboat yelling scr*w the women & children, and Clinton yelling back asking if there is enough time to do it.

The absolute Perfect Indifference of Perfect Capitalism and the definition of a new, and improved, set of tenets for the new same old Nazi. Is it a fact, or just a very high possibility?

Tadzio

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

12 Oct 2011, 10:16 am

I know your point wasn't just to tell that joke about Ford, Nixon, and Clinton, but that was truly funny, ans I will most assuredly remember it and retell it. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

12 Oct 2011, 11:12 am

Oodain wrote:

People are what the human race is made of.

By the way there is no even playing field, there never was and their never will be. At best, we can make our governments not put up unnecessary and artificial barriers to achievement at whatever level. But as long as people are free to chose with whom they do business and with whom they associate there will always be inequalites and inequities.

ruveyn

Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

12 Oct 2011, 12:25 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Okay on a more serious note, the problem is the SEC was busy watching porn, there was a whistleblower that brought the Madoff thing to their attention and they simply ignored the whistleblower.

Yes, the SEC was watching porn. Adult testimony, people, from a real political advocate.

Well unfortunately for you I actually can back up what I was saying, care to apologize?[//quote]

To apologize for what? For saying that you sounded childish?

Inuyasha wrote:

Proof they were warned:
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A whistleblower who repeatedly warned the Securities and Exchange Commission that Bernard Madoff was perpetrating a massive investment fraud testified Wednesday that the regulatory agency that oversees financial markets is inept, "financially illiterate" and far too cozy with the financial titans it is supposed to be regulating.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/04/news/ne ... tleblower/

I didn't say that they weren't warned. I said that it is silly to make up a stupid conclusion like they failed because 'they were watching porn'.

Inuyasha wrote:

Proof they were watching porn:

WASHINGTON -- Senior staffers at the Securities and Exchange Commission spent hours surfing pornographic websites on government-issued computers while they were being paid to police the financial system, an agency watchdog says.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04 ... z1aUrO2yOg

I didn't say that they weren't watching porn. I said that it's silly assume that because they were looking at porn they missed the Madoff case.

Inuyasha wrote:

And from a leftist source:

I wish there were a way to indict an entire government commission. Okay, well, maybe just the senior staff?

I'm speaking, of course, about the Security and Exchange Commission where as many as 33 of its top management - including senior lawyers and accountants - were apparently too busy looking at triple X-rated internet porn sites to notice brewing financial tsunamis like the implosion of the U.S. housing market, the demise of giant Lehman Brothers and rouge billionaire investment gurus like Bernie Madoff and Robert Allen Stanford who, together, decimated countless thousands of American's retirement plans.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-dim ... 65202.html

Indeed, and nobody else managed to predict it either because as it has already been said the Sub-prime mortgage crises relied on so much debt-financing and cross contamination that nobody could keep a track of any money.

Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

12 Oct 2011, 12:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

It still comes down to plundering the best to help the less good.

Taxation is theft. Let us have as little of it as possible.

ruveyn

Of course, because we really need a classist statement like plundering best to help the less good. Aren't you guys always going on about class war? Then why does your rationale often involve actually causing suffering to lower class people?

Taxation isn't theft. Trying to equalize such things is idiotic and morever destructive.

Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

12 Oct 2011, 12:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:

By the way there is no even playing field, there never was and their never will be. At best, we can make our governments not put up unnecessary and artificial barriers to achievement at whatever level. But as long as people are free to chose with whom they do business and with whom they associate there will always be inequalites and inequities.

ruveyn

But for the same reason one shouldn't then try to justify a state of affairs that is even worse because otherwise they're an idiot who is taking reality and mangling it in to some sort of twisted, extremist concept.

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

12 Oct 2011, 1:13 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Oodain wrote:

they dont have to put up barriers to provide more equal footing than before (no one ever said it was completely equal)
there are plenty of itnernational level companies from denmark, a country of a mere 6 million people, we are regarded as quite a good buisenss enviroment despite our taxes.
besides a high standard of education helps much more than a mere company, it helps the society as a whole,

_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

Page 4 of 5 [ 78 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

Jump to:

is social security a ponzi scheme Post Reply New Topic

is social security a ponzi scheme