Dutch expected to make preparation of halal meat illegal

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LKL
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09 Nov 2011, 9:56 pm

ruveyn wrote:

DC wrote:

It is strange how jews and muslims are the only ones to insist that this is the case.

Jews and Muslims are religiously forbiden to eat meat with blood in it. Draining the animal of blood is the first step in carrying out this commandment.

ruveyn

The heart keeps on beating for some time when a bolt is used to stun an animal - the brain stem is not affected. It is somewhat like pithing a frog for dissection. The only difference in bloodiness between standard slaughter and kosher slaughter is that, with the former, the animal is bled out after being rendered unconscious.

ruveyn
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10 Nov 2011, 7:13 am

LKL wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

DC wrote:

It is strange how jews and muslims are the only ones to insist that this is the case.

Jews and Muslims are religiously forbiden to eat meat with blood in it. Draining the animal of blood is the first step in carrying out this commandment.

ruveyn

It is the unconscious part that Orthodox Schochets object to. They see stunning the animal as rendering it "torn" (treyf). Unfortunately, Kosher slaughter was invented during the bronze age and they did not have electrical stunners back then.

What Dutch Orthodox Jews will have to do is import kosher slaughtered beef and lamb if this law holds up.

Either that or Orthodox Rabbis will have to rethink their stand on electrical stunning.

ruveyn

ruveyn

JakobVirgil
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10 Nov 2011, 9:22 am

ruveyn wrote:

LKL wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

DC wrote:

It is strange how jews and muslims are the only ones to insist that this is the case.

Jews and Muslims are religiously forbiden to eat meat with blood in it. Draining the animal of blood is the first step in carrying out this commandment.

ruveyn

This is what I was thinking the unconscious bit is not in Tanakh.
to me treyf should mean torn and not extended.

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Ragtime
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10 Nov 2011, 9:23 am

It will always be politically correct to be less Jewish.

n3rdgir1
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10 Nov 2011, 9:55 am

We should always be doing everything in the best way possible and to the best of our abilities.

That being said, f**k Abrahamic religions; all of them. They should have no place in the decision process if they insist the best way to do something was the way they decided to during the bronze age.

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10 Nov 2011, 10:02 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

This is what I was thinking the unconscious bit is not in Tanakh.
to me treyf should mean torn and not extended.

A good part of Orthodox Judaism is not in TNKH (written scripture). The Oral tradition extending scriptural doctrines extensively and in some cases well beyond reason.

Example: Not eating meat (beef, lamb, fowl) with milk or milk products. In scripture is says three times: Thou shalt not seethe a kid (baby goat) in the milk of its mother.

Yet also in scripture when the three malachim (angels or divine agents) come to Abraham's tent to tell him which will happen to Sodom and 'Amorah he feeds them with milk and meat. The Rabbis jump through hoops reconciling that contradiction with their doctrine of no meat and milk together.

And so it goes.

ruveyn

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10 Nov 2011, 10:26 am

ruveyn wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

This is what I was thinking the unconscious bit is not in Tanakh.
to me treyf should mean torn and not extended.

A good part of Orthodox Judaism is not in TNKH (written scripture). The Oral tradition extending scriptural doctrines extensively and in some cases well beyond reason.

Example: Not eating meat (beef, lamb, fowl) with milk or milk products. In scripture is says three times: Thou shalt not seethe a kid (baby goat) in the milk of its mother.

Yet also in scripture when the three malachim (angels or divine agents) come to Abraham's tent to tell him which will happen to Sodom and 'Amorah he feeds them with milk and meat. The Rabbis jump through hoops reconciling that contradiction with their doctrine of no meat and milk together.

And so it goes.

ruveyn

this is why I never make young chevon and goats milk stew. . . any more.

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Ragtime
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10 Nov 2011, 10:40 am

n3rdgir1 wrote:

Oh omniscient one, educate us further.

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10 Nov 2011, 11:32 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

this is why I never make young chevon and goats milk stew. . . any more.

Abraham served his three guests young lamb and curds. Very unkosher, but they seemed to enjoy the meal. They liked the meal so much the told Abraham to the Good News: Sarah was going to have her own child. Of course she laughed which is why she named her child Isaac which is Hebrew for Giggles.

ruveyn

JakobVirgil
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10 Nov 2011, 1:18 pm

ruveyn wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

this is why I never make young chevon and goats milk stew. . . any more.

A better harmonization would be to apply the ban only to goat milk and meat.
But I have found when text and practice are in conflict it is practice that comes
out unscathed.

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10 Nov 2011, 2:09 pm

Ragtime wrote:

n3rdgir1 wrote:

Oh omniscient one, educate us further.

You don't need to be omniscient to admit that she has a point (however bluntly put).

If you put aside belief in the Abrahamic Celing Dude, then ritual slaughter does just look like bronze age barbarism and nothing more.

In moral terms, Humans > God, imo.

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Vigilans
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10 Nov 2011, 2:23 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

n3rdgir1 wrote:

Oh omniscient one, educate us further.

You can't spell "Ritual Slaughter" without "Laughter"

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DC
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10 Nov 2011, 2:46 pm

ruveyn wrote:

It is the unconscious part that Orthodox Schochets object to. They see stunning the animal as rendering it "torn" (treyf). Unfortunately, Kosher slaughter was invented during the bronze age and they did not have electrical stunners back then.

Either that or Orthodox Rabbis will have to rethink their stand on electrical stunning.

Or option 3 go veggie.

I am strongly against religious exemptions from law, if it important enough to legislate about then it is important enough to apply equally regardless of the opinion a person's imaginary friend.

Kids get locked for carrying knives, unless you are Sikh in which case you can carry one to school.

Wife beating is illegal, unless you are a muslim woman in Germany...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 17,00.html

Is it any wonder that people are getting distinctly peed off with multiculturalism?

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10 Nov 2011, 4:27 pm

DC wrote:

Or option 3 go veggie.

You go veggie. I like chicken, fish and lamb. I can skip the beef with no problem.

And I can still enjoy my legumes and salads.

ruveyn

DC
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10 Nov 2011, 4:30 pm

ruveyn wrote:

DC wrote:

Or option 3 go veggie.

You go veggie. I like chicken, fish and lamb. I can skip the beef with no problem.

And I can still enjoy my legumes and salads.

ruveyn

I did for 13 years.

NaNa.

puddingmouse
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10 Nov 2011, 7:17 pm

Vigilans wrote:

You can't spell "Ritual Slaughter" without "Laughter"

Peturbant.

Jesus backwards is 'susej' - which sort of sounds like sausage. :lol:

If you live backwards you are evil.

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