Nation of Israel and God

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Oodain
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13 Nov 2011, 1:18 am

salad confusion of first degree
i will stick with straight potato salad and egg salad on my herring.

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kxmode
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13 Nov 2011, 1:25 am

Oodain wrote:

salad confusion of first degree
i will stick with straight potato salad and egg salad on my herring.

Wait. What? You put potato salad AND egg salad on fish? I think I'm getting heartburn just thinking about that...

ruveyn
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13 Nov 2011, 4:26 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

But not one of these things has proven evolution to be false.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

In addition to which the scientific protocol's of verification by independent observations brings frauds and scams to light sooner or later. Usually sooner. Science is self correcting because it requires that one test theories against reality. Reality does not give a damn who is Right and who gets Credit. Reality is a harsh master. To control Reality you must first obey it.

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13 Nov 2011, 4:39 am

kxmode wrote:

Despite the possible backlash I felt compelled to post this. Try and read it with an open mind. I spent four hours putting this together and I tried to pay attention to the wording so that it doesn't sound insulting.

For anyone wondering if the nation of Israel is still God's chosen people the best resource is the Bible, specifically the Old Testament.

Question: When you say Israel do you mean the descendants of Jacob who did not sell out and become polytheists? Or do you mean the State of Israel which is a secular State?

Until God finds another Abraham or another Moses, the Jews will have to do.

Whatever other faults Jews have, they can count. There is at most One God.

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leejosepho
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13 Nov 2011, 11:13 am

ruveyn wrote:

Until God finds another Abraham or another Moses, the Jews will have to do.

Whatever other faults Jews have, they can count. There is at most One God.

*quoted for truth*

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Ragtime
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13 Nov 2011, 11:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm a practicing Lutheran, so I'm hardly one to ask about proving God false. Going by my upbringing, one knows God by faith, not by proof.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Does God thoroughly work to hide Himself from us, in every possible way? What, is He shy? That wouldn't make sense.
He most definitely requires faith from us, in that certain facts about God simply have to be taken on faith because we can't see Him.
But to say it's all on faith -- He might as well not exist, if he never enters into reality in any perceivable way at all.
For instance, we Christians have faith that He has forgiven our sins, and that we are going to Heaven. We don't have physical evidence of either of these.
But Paul wrote that God's creation of the world is manifest to everyone -- simply look around and it's obvious, he says. And the beauty and profound majesty of nature tells us something about the character of God.

Quote:

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 1:18-21

Even Richard Dawkins admits that the world looks intelligently designed and created. Why would he even make such a concession, with his pathological opposition to the existence of God? Because he cannot deny the evidence in front of his eyes.

Ragtime
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13 Nov 2011, 11:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

But not one of these things has proven evolution to be false.

Well, if you want to call it a theory on life support, with the evidence mounting against it, I'll accept that. We don't need to prove something false to the nth degree in order to say it fails to meet the minimum standard for believability.

Lecks
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13 Nov 2011, 11:34 am

Ragtime wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

But not one of these things has proven evolution to be false.

Well, if you want to call it a theory on life support, with the evidence mounting against it, I'll accept that. We don't need to prove something false to the nth degree in order to say it fails to meet the minimum standard for believability.

Could you give an example of evidence against evolution?

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Kraichgauer
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13 Nov 2011, 11:38 am

Sure, I'll concede, the natural world is God's handiwork. Or, if you're an atheist, you can believe it's all done through an incredible, mindless natural process. Or if pagan, it's the work of Wodan, Jupiter, or Baal. But creation is hardly the only aspect of Christianity which encapsulates God. Faith is the only way we can know him.

And I have to say, it's only religious conservatives who have written evolution's obituary. Trust me, it's alive and well - and true.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

JakobVirgil
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13 Nov 2011, 12:12 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

But not one of these things has proven evolution to be false.

What color is the sky in the world you live in?

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ruveyn
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13 Nov 2011, 12:36 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Even Richard Dawkins admits that the world looks intelligently designed and created. Why would he even make such a concession, with his pathological opposition to the existence of God? Because he cannot deny the evidence in front of his eyes.

Not pathological at all. The laws of physical nature are sufficient to account for the appearance of design. One need not postulate a Designer. It is simply an application of Occam's Razor.

Why assume the existence of entities that are not necessary to assume to produce the desired explanation?

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13 Nov 2011, 1:31 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

But not one of these things has proven evolution to be false.

The theory of evolution as it is NOW, currently merged with molecular biology and genetics is on an extremely sound footing. When the anti-evolutionists rail and rage they aim their attack at version 1.0 of the theory which is what Darwin and Wallace presented in 1859. Darwin and Wallace were right about natural selection (insofar as it operates) but they did not have the least idea about how inherited characteristics were transmitted from one generation to the next. That deficiency has been more than over come in the subsequent 150 years. Now living things can be synthesized from scratch. Craig Venter and his team have done it.

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/ ... -life-form

There is little doubt that all living things have descended (with modification) from earlier forms of life. And their is little doubt that the Earth is Old, not the paltry 6000 years imply by the biblical fairy tale of creation.

ruveyn

shrox
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13 Nov 2011, 1:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

...I'm a practicing Lutheran, so I'm hardly one to ask about proving God false. Going by my upbringing, one knows God by faith, not by proof.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Kind of forgot who knows who as far as the Lord is concerned!

ruveyn
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13 Nov 2011, 2:15 pm

shrox wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

...I'm a practicing Lutheran, so I'm hardly one to ask about proving God false. Going by my upbringing, one knows God by faith, not by proof.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Kind of forgot who knows who as far as the Lord is concerned!

The real Lord is Out There and you know nothing of It. All you know are stories told. The Lord within is your idea of the Real Lord (assuming It exists) and consists of your impressions, your fancies and your wishes.

Reality is Out There. Our ideas of Reality are In Here. The the two rarely meet.

Beware of confusing fact with fancy.

ruveyn

shrox
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13 Nov 2011, 2:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:

shrox wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

...I'm a practicing Lutheran, so I'm hardly one to ask about proving God false. Going by my upbringing, one knows God by faith, not by proof.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Kind of forgot who knows who as far as the Lord is concerned!

I would like you stop telling us what we do and don't know. My understanding does consist of my impressions, but not fancies or wishes. And what about the writing of the scribes I keep mentioning? Literally the video cameras of their day, writing down each day's events as they unfurled. Written records from two independent sources, Jewish and Roman.

Ragtime
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13 Nov 2011, 2:30 pm

ruveyn wrote:

It is simply an application of Occam's Razor.

Why assume the existence of entities that are not necessary to assume to produce the desired explanation?

ruveyn

Because no believable theory has shown how He wouldn't be necessary -- how the universe designed and created itself in the amazing balance and refinement in which it currently exists. "With enough patience, blocks of metal and other raw materials will form a wound and ticking watch" just doesn't persuade me.

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