The Trouble with Militant Atheist

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Abgal64
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28 Nov 2011, 2:31 pm

artrat wrote:

You should not insult the ancient people they had some very wise ideas. The goat herders that you put down used the night sky as a map.I really respect ancient people much more than modern scientist
Which come up with new theories every day.

They thought diseases were caused by demons, witches were real, human sacrifices were ok (in certain cultures), and that we were being watched by the person who made us in their image. All of these are equally stupid and need to die out as beliefs. They have no evidence and hold us back.[quote="artrat"]Just because they believe some things that were stupid does not mean that everything they believed was stupid: Look at Confucius and his basically humanistic philosophy, for example.

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n3rdgir1
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28 Nov 2011, 4:00 pm

Abgal64 wrote:

Just because they believe some things that were stupid does not mean that everything they believed was stupid: Look at Confucius and his basically humanistic philosophy, for example.

Again, knowing about philosophy has jack to do with knowing about the creation of the universe or about the beginnings of life on earth. They knew a few things, but overall they were useless at figuring out anything they couldn't directly observe. Besides, knowledge is built on knowledge. What people find out about the creation of the universe might change a bit, but THAT DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS A CREATOR! God does not exist to fill the gaps in our knowledge.

Religion is a compensation device for too much pride to admit ignorance in areas that can be used to exploit the gullible. Just because you don't know how something happened, doesn't mean the guy who said it was done by invisible omnipotent intelligent being is even close to correct.

WilliamWDelaney
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28 Nov 2011, 4:38 pm

artrat wrote:

I am spiritually confused right now. I feel spiritually connected to nature but nothing else really.

Study Stoicism. You would get along with it just fine.

Quote:

I know I am not atheist or agnostic because I still feel like I believe in a creator. I was raised catholic but I don't believe in Jesus. I am defending religion because my whole family is catholic and I respect them. I don't want to insult their faith. This post was an emotionally response to that. I feel like people are insulting my family.

Become an Episcopalian. They aren't picky over what your beliefs actually are (I've known some who are virtually atheists) as long as you show up and say a prayer here and there. It's otherwise close enough to Catholicism that you shouldn't feel too much like you're on another planet. I bet you'd fit right in.

Abgal64
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28 Nov 2011, 5:00 pm

n3rdgir1 wrote:

Abgal64 wrote:

Just because they believe some things that were stupid does not mean that everything they believed was stupid: Look at Confucius and his basically humanistic philosophy, for example.

I am an anthropocentric atheist, by the way, and I think theism is as foolish and as backwards as turning to Galen's works for advice on medical practice. Furthermore, I do not really care about the creation of the universe, as it has nothing to do with understanding the present, improving the future or learning about the human condition at any time.

Knowledge is of course built on knowledge, but misconceptions are based on misconceptions as well, and the 2 are intertwined to varying degrees: The misconceptions of Zhou Dunyi about gender roles are based on Mencius's misconceptions about gender roles which in turn are based on Confucius's misconceptions about gender roles. Yet Confucius's teachings also gave rise to humanism; in the same way, Mahavira's teachings also gave rise to an extremely advanced logical tradition and a very early from of religious atheism long before Marx and Engels.

What I guess am trying to say is this: Why shut out people just because they are ancient, if knowledge does not develop in a simple, linear pattern? For that matter, why did Confucius's teachings allow China to survive for over 2 millennia if they are so bad?

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puddingmouse
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28 Nov 2011, 5:30 pm

Abgal64 wrote:

n3rdgir1 wrote:

Abgal64 wrote:

Just because they believe some things that were stupid does not mean that everything they believed was stupid: Look at Confucius and his basically humanistic philosophy, for example.

I like the way you think.

I don't know much about Confucius, but I have learned a lot from Jesus, Lao Tse, Siddhartha Gautama, Bodhidharma, etc. Of course, all are fraught with misconceptions, but the ideas are worthy of study.

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artrat
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28 Nov 2011, 5:37 pm

n3rdgir1 wrote:

artrat wrote:

Even if I did study the big bang theory I would probably still believe in a creator(not an invisible man).

If you knew how a car worked would you believe that there are little gnomes that move the pistons in the engine up and down? If you knew how the human body worked, would you still think diseases were caused by demons? Knowledge kills ignorance.

artrat wrote:

I have no interest in studying it because science bores me to death. It's only a theory.

So, you're willfully ignorant then. You obviously don't know what a theory is. This is why I hate religion, it celebrates ignorance disguised as faith and dumbs down our entire species.

artrat wrote:

I may be ignorant in the subject of science but I'm sure you are ignorant in many subjects that I am knowledgeable about.

You're right! I don't know anything about knitting, skiing, bear hunting, french poetry, or nascar. I do however know a lot about many different branches of science that pertain to this discussion. I fail to see your point.

artrat wrote:

I don't think you can compare the inside of a car to the meaning of life. It is easy to explain how a car and there is only one explanation.
I know that a theory is not always correct. I don't exactly like religion either. I can't stand organized religion and agree that it does dumb us down. I am not defend it.
I am defend the idea of a creator not a messiah . I agree with some scientific theories like the theory of evolution. I just think that the big bang theory is incorrect.
I think if we did not have the knowledge of the ancient Greeks modern science would have never been the same. Without the knowledge of history we are bound to make the same mistakes which is why we must respect the ancient people. I think you are ignorant on the subject of open mindedness.
Man created science and science created man. It really makes no sense at all. This is why I believe in some kind of a creator.

WilliamWDelaney
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28 Nov 2011, 5:56 pm

Quote:

You should not insult the ancient people they had some very wise ideas.

And some very stupid ideas, which some of the better ancient philosophers made a career out of pointing out.

Quote:

The goat herders that you put down used the night sky as a map.

The best education to be had on this at the time of Thales was to be found in Babylon. You know, that ancient den of iniquity and godlessness.

Quote:

I really respect ancient people much more than modern scientist

I don't see why. The better ancient philosophers became so respected merely because they followed the same rules for discovery as any modern scientist. Modern scientists can accomplish more at one time primarily out of being better equipped and having more background rather than having to work from virtual scratch, but they still follow the same fundamental values of their ancient forebears.

Actually, their forbears weren't working from scratch either. Not even Thales.

Quote:

Which come up with new theories every day.

I certainly hope so. After all, that's their job.

n3rdgir1
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28 Nov 2011, 6:16 pm

artrat wrote:

I just think that the big bang theory is incorrect.

You said before you're ignorant and unwilling to study it. Your opinion on something doesn't matter if you don't understand it. Period.

artrat
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28 Nov 2011, 7:01 pm

n3rdgir1 wrote:

artrat wrote:

I just think that the big bang theory is incorrect.

You said before you're ignorant and unwilling to study it. Your opinion on something doesn't matter if you don't understand it. Period.

I studied the big bang theory in school so I know enough to know I disagree with it.
If I want to believe in a god that is my decisions. I am not judging you for being athiest and you should not judge me.

LKL
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28 Nov 2011, 7:23 pm

artrat wrote:

n3rdgir1 wrote:

artrat wrote:

I just think that the big bang theory is incorrect.

You said before you're ignorant and unwilling to study it. Your opinion on something doesn't matter if you don't understand it. Period.

Due respect, but if by 'school' you mean, 'public grade school,' that does not count as having studied it unless you devoted some personal, individual time and effort to finding sources other than your teacher. Public school sucks at teaching basic science.

Abgal64
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28 Nov 2011, 7:48 pm

LKL wrote:

artrat wrote:

n3rdgir1 wrote:

artrat wrote:

I just think that the big bang theory is incorrect.

You said before you're ignorant and unwilling to study it. Your opinion on something doesn't matter if you don't understand it. Period.

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Oodain
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28 Nov 2011, 8:32 pm

artrat wrote:

n3rdgir1 wrote:

artrat wrote:

I just think that the big bang theory is incorrect.

You said before you're ignorant and unwilling to study it. Your opinion on something doesn't matter if you don't understand it. Period.

when we are dealing with science personal opinion carries little wheight

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Telekon
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28 Nov 2011, 9:47 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

What do rifles have to do with Christians, militant or otherwise?

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28 Nov 2011, 9:52 pm

About as much as dynamite has to do with Islam I suppose

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29 Nov 2011, 12:51 am

There is this interesting study that may explain why atheists seem more angry than theists when it comes to the discussion of God.

'It seems that more religious people are less likely to feel angry at God and more likely to see his intentions as well-meaning, Exline's research found.'

Interestingly, despite not believing in God, atheists are more likely to be angry at him :?:

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/0 ... -atheists/

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Vexcalibur
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29 Nov 2011, 12:58 am

Quote:

In studies on college students, atheists and agnostics reported more anger at God during their lifetimes than believers

"During their lifetimes".

It means that people that atheists are more likely to have been believers that were angry at god.

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