Is Islamophobia any more justified than anti-Semitism?

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I don't think anyone whom is Jewish believes they are supposed to go out and conquer the world.

Characterizing anti-Zionism as anti-Semitic is inaccurate and it obscures legitimate criticism of Israel's policies and actions. And too often, it's a cheap political ploy to stifle criticism of Israel.

There is not point in arguing with conservatives.
They either strongly support Zionism or hate me. They treat me like an anti-semitic bigot when I said not one thing against the Jewish faith.
These are the same people that argued with me about the Palestinians. I think this is a personal attack.
I never said that Jews wanted world domination. I strictly said Zionist. I even gave the definition of judeo-fascism and gave facts about the zionsts involvement in the Armenian genocide.
Even though I still mentioned the fundamentalist Muslims the first time I posted I still get treated like crap.
I doubt that these people even care about the issues the just want to upset a person like me that is very passionate about their views.
They really want me to get so angry that I cry.
This is one of those threads that I should have stayed out of.

When someone is a Christian Zionist or a political Zionist, of course they are going to accuse you of antisemitism if you are anti-Zionist, so long as they aren't capable of producing a logic based argument.

I've had Jewish Zionists tell me I'm a self-hating Jew because I'm anti-Zionist. It's a logical fallacy though, reductio ad absurdum. They say it because they don't have a leg to stand on.

I guess, effectively, I think when someone resorts to logical fallacies they are declaring defeat.

Driving through them, lol. Try living in them.

Actually it's not that bad, apart from the fact that they totally look down on my culture, when my culture happens to be the native culture of the country they're in. People are people and most people are decent. I know what it's like to be a minority. The only cultures I have contempt for are the ones who have contempt for me. My 'Islamophobia' is a reaction to their dislike of kufr (Infidelophobia?)

My interactions with Jews have never caused me to be anti-Semitic. I grew up somewhere with a high population of Hasidics and I couldn't understand why all the kids at my Catholic primary school would make fun of them when they walked past. Okay, they look stupid. Yes, they are religious fanatics...but they completely keep themselves to themselves. If they hold me and my culture in contempt, which I'm sure they do, they don't go out of their way to make that known to me. All the other Jews I've actually interacted with have not been Hasidic, and they have mostly left a positive impression.

I feel the Muslims where I live do make their contempt known to me in so many insidious ways. You'd have to live somewhere with a high concentration of Muslims (specifically ones from the Asian subcontinent, rather than from other areas) to know what I'm talking about. I went to a high school that was 70% Pakistani Muslim. I currently work for a guy who is also an imam and has two wives. I've gotten to know over time what they think about us infidels.

To get to the point: I dislike Islam because I think it takes over people's outlook so much that they can't relate to non-Muslims on equal terms. I have a very egalitarian spirit and generally like most people. Islam is a big party pooper in my ideal of love-fest for humanity. I often have a feeling, like the bit in Schiller's 'Ode to Joy' where he gives the kiss for the whole world. Islam rejects that kiss as a dirty infidel kiss, so I return the snub.

I'll take a stab in the dark, and assume you're British?
Most Muslim Americans are much better integrated into American society than they have in Europe.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

What are Muslims' opinions on wife-beating?

No thanks. Thanks for the offer, though.



And it's that that really pisses me right off and is what causes all the upset.

It's all very well Kraichgauer saying that Muslims are fairly well integrated into American society but in many ways this simply is not the case in Europe. And the biggest targets for this are usually South Asian and Moroccan Muslims. They insist on wearing their burqas in a rather counter-productive way and behaving as though they deserve special treatment and manage to obtain this through a mixture of silencing, bullying, lies and the decency of the host countries. I hope the populations of Europe are slowly getting sick of this sort of behaviour from them and find the cojones to do something about it by replacing their dhimmi politicians.



Indeed. Which is why, more often than not, people with Asperger's get on relatively well with other minority groups. "More often than not" is the operative phrase.



The phrase "Islamophobia", I believe, is largely absolute bollocks.



I don't know many Jews but the ones I have met have been very good and peaceful people.



Perhaps a lot of the people who defend Muslims who come from these areas mostly have a self-hating thing going on?

And, yes, I agree. Many Muslims from other parts of the world (and some from South Asia also) are perfectly fine people and love living in the UK. Some have become apostate (or would consider doing so) and wish to live like the general population. Certainly I've known a few Muslims and in general they've been fine (The_Face_of_Boo being especially sane, and not all Muslim-majority nations are full of people who hate the West) but I've also met some arrogant tossers. The problem was, I believe, that many of our Muslims came from some of the most backward areas of Pakistan? I may be wrong on this. If this is true, you can understand why this must spell trouble when you consider that the political elites here do not want to talk about this or tackle this subject.

I also noted that in one of the Rochdale papers the other day there was another big story about Muslim-led sex gangs. A lot of men from South Asian Muslim communities are extremely misogynistic, not only to women within their 'own' community but also to women in general, especially young local white women. The "rape gangs" thing has been going on here for many years now in various heavily Muslim-populated areas. I remember watching a documentary about it going on in West Yorkshire about seven years back.



So some of the saner anti-Islam politicians are often more or less right then?

I'm the first to admit that there are two sides to every story, and that there are both good people, and dirty sons-of-bitches in every group.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Here you go:

Top Muslim cleric slams 'evil' sex gangs: http://menmedia.co.uk/rochdaleobserver/ ... -sex-gangs

You didn't put an option in the poll for if you believe that both Islamophobia and anti-Semitism are justified. I believe that they're both somewhat justified. I don't like Israel, Palestine, and a lot of other countries in the middle east. Not all Jews and Muslims are bad, but quite a few of them are. There are also quite a few Christians and Atheists who I don't like. I'm a Spiritualist. I guess there are probably a lot of other Spiritualists who I don't like either. I guess I'm mostly just anti-humanity in general.

Last edited by Mike1 on 14 Dec 2011, 6:22 pm, edited 7 times in total.

It is o.k. as long as bones are not broken.

ruveyn

Tequila, wrt to where the Muslims have come from in our country. There are some neighbourhoods where they come from the same village in Kashmir. When I lived in Leeds and worked in Oldham, this was the case.

I generally find that Muslims from the rest of the subcontinent aren't that keen on infidels, either. You don't get the same number of Afghan/Bangla/Indian misogynistic gangsta-wannabe teenage boys, as you do with the Pakistanis...but I still detect that they don't see me as an equal. It might just be my paranoia (I am certainly a very paranoid person).

Whatever they think about me, I don't like what Islam has to say as a religion - so that's another part of my Islamophobia. I feel the word does actually apply to me because I am scared of Islam.

I don't know any mainstream politicians who are anti-Islam in the UK. I'm sure some members of UKIP could be described as such, but I couldn't vote for them. I don't think you'd agree with me on most aspects of politics apart from this one. I'm very left-wing (don't worry, I'm not a Socialist Worker, though - they're a cult!)

I've heard that a good chunk of the Dutch parliament have fatwas placed upon them. I'd actually be proud of my country if the same was true here.

I am indeed British. I come from a big, cosmopolitan, unpleasant-in-many-ways city (not London).

(nods)



No, you're probably right.



I hope you're not going to think I'm out to get you on Sunday. Perhaps I should leave the red flag and lighter fluid at home.



It's a worthy thing to be scared of.

You don't think seeing a fat, middle-aged South Asian Muslim psychiatrist with darting, paranoid eyes would help you any then?



Malcolm Pearson, the former leader of UKIP, was heading in that direction - he of the "ban the burqa" movement in the UK. He also invited Geert Wilders over to talk about his brilliant film Fitna.



Is it because they're anti-EU? To tell you the truth, I don't agree with many members of UKIP, although I like Farage. I don't get on with a decent portion of the membership as I find they're authoritarian and reactionary.



I'd describe my politics as centre-right. Classical liberal and conservative with a dose of nationalism and a thick stream of anti-EU feeling involved too. So a mix of UKIP and the SVP.



Inshallah.