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One about Ron Paul and his supporters

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Dox47
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23 Dec 2011, 12:46 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Wasn't Gary Johnson the ex-talk show guy who McCain beat a couple years ago?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Try the former 2 term governor of New Mexico. Don't feel too bad, most other people haven't heard of him either.


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Kraichgauer
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23 Dec 2011, 12:50 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Wasn't Gary Johnson the ex-talk show guy who McCain beat a couple years ago?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Try the former 2 term governor of New Mexico. Don't feel too bad, most other people haven't heard of him either.


My apologies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Jacoby
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23 Dec 2011, 12:51 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
. If he's at all responsible for the racism in his newsletter, then I'd have to draw the conclusion that he's at the very least a fellow traveler with Stormfront.


That would be a big revelation if he had to admit that he was personally responsible for what it said, but I think it's highly unlikely that he was. The head of the NAACP has known Paul for a couple decades, and doesn't think the charge has any bearing.


But at the very least, he published those hateful things in his newsletter, and he's so far refused to even try to discover who allegedly wrote them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why does it matter who wrote them tho? Pretty much everyone agrees it wasn't Ron so I don't see why people care who did. Does it matter if Lew Rockwell wrote them or not?


It matters about who wrote that hate filled crap because Paul's name was attached to the newsletter. Even if he didn't write it, he published it. And if he didn't know what he was publishing, that in itself should make one question his credentials to be president.
And as far as whether he should have kept the money from Stormfront, or given it back, the very fact that he took it reflects badly on him, as it implies that he believes in their white separatist sh**. And I don't buy the notion that if the money didn't go to Paul, it would have been used for some nefarious purpose. They can achieve more harm if they're able to break into the mainstream with their ideas by supporting a more or less mainstream candidate.

-Bill, otherwise known a Kraichgauer

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


He didn't publish it. He had nothing to do with it besides lending his name and he doesn't know who wrote the exact passages in question. That's all there is to it, end of story.

Ron doesn't choose who supports him and gives money to his campaign. Neither does Obama. Just because I've given money to his campaign does mean he knows me or supports any of my bad decisions I've made over the course of my life.

Is Obama a racist for his very real association with Jeremiah Wright? Is he terrorist for his association with Bill Ayers? By your logic, yes. What you are doing is guilt by association and it's not even a real association. It's a total smear and you should be ashamed of yourself for buying into it.


I'll concede, guilt by association is BS, but I think this goes beyond mere association. Obama, after all, never lent his name to any of Rev. Writes rants.
If I was blasting Paul just for his associations, I could see how I should be ashamed of myself, but since in my opinion I didn't, I'm not.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Obama only sat in his church for 20 years, married him with his wife Michele, and baptized his kids. I think his association with Jeremiah was a little more serious than taking a picture with some weird kid in a hat or some unnamed person that wrote an article for a newsletter that he lent his name to in 80s.

However, I don't believe Obama or his wife are racists merely because they associated with someone that was. I've known quite a few bad people myself over my lifetime, I'm sure you have as well. He's never done anything that lead me to believe that he is a racist and I hope you extend that same benefit of the doubt to other people. Ron's beliefs are explicitly anti-hate and I hope people realize this.



Kraichgauer
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23 Dec 2011, 12:58 am

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
. If he's at all responsible for the racism in his newsletter, then I'd have to draw the conclusion that he's at the very least a fellow traveler with Stormfront.


That would be a big revelation if he had to admit that he was personally responsible for what it said, but I think it's highly unlikely that he was. The head of the NAACP has known Paul for a couple decades, and doesn't think the charge has any bearing.


But at the very least, he published those hateful things in his newsletter, and he's so far refused to even try to discover who allegedly wrote them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Why does it matter who wrote them tho? Pretty much everyone agrees it wasn't Ron so I don't see why people care who did. Does it matter if Lew Rockwell wrote them or not?


It matters about who wrote that hate filled crap because Paul's name was attached to the newsletter. Even if he didn't write it, he published it. And if he didn't know what he was publishing, that in itself should make one question his credentials to be president.
And as far as whether he should have kept the money from Stormfront, or given it back, the very fact that he took it reflects badly on him, as it implies that he believes in their white separatist sh**. And I don't buy the notion that if the money didn't go to Paul, it would have been used for some nefarious purpose. They can achieve more harm if they're able to break into the mainstream with their ideas by supporting a more or less mainstream candidate.

-Bill, otherwise known a Kraichgauer

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


He didn't publish it. He had nothing to do with it besides lending his name and he doesn't know who wrote the exact passages in question. That's all there is to it, end of story.

Ron doesn't choose who supports him and gives money to his campaign. Neither does Obama. Just because I've given money to his campaign does mean he knows me or supports any of my bad decisions I've made over the course of my life.

Is Obama a racist for his very real association with Jeremiah Wright? Is he terrorist for his association with Bill Ayers? By your logic, yes. What you are doing is guilt by association and it's not even a real association. It's a total smear and you should be ashamed of yourself for buying into it.


I'll concede, guilt by association is BS, but I think this goes beyond mere association. Obama, after all, never lent his name to any of Rev. Writes rants.
If I was blasting Paul just for his associations, I could see how I should be ashamed of myself, but since in my opinion I didn't, I'm not.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Obama only sat in his church for 20 years, married him with his wife Michele, and baptized his kids. I think his association with Jeremiah was a little more serious than taking a picture with some weird kid in a hat or some unnamed person that wrote an article for a newsletter that he lent his name to in 80s.

However, I don't believe Obama or his wife are racists merely because they associated with someone that was. I've known quite a few bad people myself over my lifetime, I'm sure you have as well. He's never done anything that lead me to believe that he is a racist and I hope you extend that same benefit of the doubt to other people. Ron's beliefs are explicitly anti-hate and I hope people realize this.


I hope he is. As I wrote earlier, his younger supporters tend to be anti-racist.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Dox47
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23 Dec 2011, 1:08 am

Just thinking aloud here, would it be unethical to con racists out of their money by simply not correcting their assumptions about you? I mean, why not take their money if you weren't planning on doing anything racist yourself?


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23 Dec 2011, 1:17 am

Dox47 wrote:
Just thinking aloud here, would it be unethical to con racists out of their money by simply not correcting their assumptions about you? I mean, why not take their money if you weren't planning on doing anything racist yourself?


I would think it would still look bad, as you'd still be taking racists' money.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



LKL
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23 Dec 2011, 1:19 am

There is at least one area where RP is saner than any of the other Republican candidates (I hope you will all forgive me for jumping in at the end of the thread): he isn't banging on the drum to get us into a war with Iran. That by itself is pretty damn important.



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23 Dec 2011, 1:20 am

Jacoby wrote:
He didn't publish it. He had nothing to do with it besides lending his name and he doesn't know who wrote the exact passages in question. That's all there is to it, end of story.

Ron doesn't choose who supports him and gives money to his campaign. Neither does Obama. Just because I've given money to his campaign does mean he knows me or supports any of my bad decisions I've made over the course of my life.

Is Obama a racist for his very real association with Jeremiah Wright? Is he terrorist for his association with Bill Ayers? By your logic, yes. What you are doing is guilt by association and it's not even a real association. It's a total smear and you should be ashamed of yourself for buying into it.


Has he spoke up against it then? Has he expressed disagreement with what was written "in his name"?

Actions speak louder than words.



Jacoby
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23 Dec 2011, 1:25 am

When did racists lose their right as American citizens to donate to the candidates of their choice anyways? Ron isn't a racist and he doesn't support racism in any way. If that's what these people think they're donating their money to their wasting it on someone who will take it and use it to promote peace and freedom. He can't control who supports him.



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23 Dec 2011, 1:30 am

Jacoby wrote:
When did racists lose their right as American citizens to donate to the candidates of their choice anyways? Ron isn't a racist and he doesn't support racism in any way. If that's what these people think they're donating their money to their wasting it on someone who will take it and use it to promote peace and freedom. He can't control who supports him.


I don't think you answered my question. It's as if you'd rather answer some other imaginary question rather than the one I asked.



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23 Dec 2011, 1:41 am

MCalavera wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
When did racists lose their right as American citizens to donate to the candidates of their choice anyways? Ron isn't a racist and he doesn't support racism in any way. If that's what these people think they're donating their money to their wasting it on someone who will take it and use it to promote peace and freedom. He can't control who supports him.


I don't think you answered my question. It's as if you'd rather answer some other imaginary question rather than the one I asked.


Your post wasn't up when I posted. 'But yes he has repudiated all of the offending statements on numerous occasions over the course of 20 years they've been trying to smear him with it. No reasonable person believes he wrote it and it's been a dead issue for a long long time. What these media jackals are looking for isn't an explanation, they're looking to assassinate his character. Think about the timing of this attack, they bust it out right when he's threatening to win the Iowa Caucus. The establishment is running scared and they're using the only thing they have left to throw at him, they can't beat him on the issues, they can't find any bad votes he's taken, they can't tie him to any politic or personal scandal, so they have to resort to long debunked smears.



Dox47
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23 Dec 2011, 1:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I would think it would still look bad, as you'd still be taking racists' money.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So, do you think Obama should return all those Wall Street contributions? Or should he keep them, as he's actually delivered on what he was paid for... :wink:

Personally, I don't particularly care who takes whom's money as long as their isn't an explicit quid pro quo agreement, I mean it would be nice if money didn't play such a big role in politics, but it does. I don't know of Ron Paul pursuing any racist policies and he's in fact opposed to some of the worst programs with racially disparate impacts, so I really don't care if some deluded racists think giving him money will advance their agenda. That tells me a lot more about the racists than it does about Ron Paul, but I don't think giving Ron Paul a fair shake was ever in the cards for this thread.


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23 Dec 2011, 2:09 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I would think it would still look bad, as you'd still be taking racists' money.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So, do you think Obama should return all those Wall Street contributions? Or should he keep them, as he's actually delivered on what he was paid for... :wink:

Personally, I don't particularly care who takes whom's money as long as their isn't an explicit quid pro quo agreement, I mean it would be nice if money didn't play such a big role in politics, but it does. I don't know of Ron Paul pursuing any racist policies and he's in fact opposed to some of the worst programs with racially disparate impacts, so I really don't care if some deluded racists think giving him money will advance their agenda. That tells me a lot more about the racists than it does about Ron Paul, but I don't think giving Ron Paul a fair shake was ever in the cards for this thread.


I wish Obama would turn away any further contributions from Wall Street.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Dec 2011, 2:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I wish Obama would turn away any further contributions from Wall Street.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


But will you denounce him if he doesn't? Will you attack him in the same manner that you've attacked Ron Paul in this thread?


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23 Dec 2011, 2:25 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I wish Obama would turn away any further contributions from Wall Street.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


But will you denounce him if he doesn't? Will you attack him in the same manner that you've attacked Ron Paul in this thread?


No. And you know why? Because I'm in a lot more agreement with Obama than I am with Paul.
And I hope if he takes that Wall Street cash, he'll tell the bankers and corporate executives to go piss off, as this would be his second and last term and wouldn't need them any more.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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23 Dec 2011, 2:49 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
No. And you know why? Because I'm in a lot more agreement with Obama than I am with Paul.
And I hope if he takes that Wall Street cash, he'll tell the bankers and corporate executives to go piss off, as this would be his second and last term and wouldn't need them any more.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Ahh, so it's different when Obama does it? You'll condemn one man and yet turn a blind eye to the same conduct from another depending on whether you agree with them or not? That's a dangerous precedent to set, that type of ethical flexibility. Just out of curiosity, do you think racists in the woods are more dangerous to the country than an unchecked Wall Street?


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