After reading this, I'm convinced that Ron Paul is....

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What do you think?
Ron Paul is a dangerous nut job 50%  50%  [ 9 ]
The letter shows that Ron Paul is a patriotic American 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
The letter is a fraud 28%  28%  [ 5 ]
Other (please elaborate) 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 18

Jacoby
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24 Dec 2011, 2:53 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
If Ron is guilty of anything, he is guilty of being to trusting of people he thought supported him.


So, he is a poor judge of character?


As I have said, Ron has always worked with people from both sides of the aisle that shared a common belief or goal that he may not be in complete agreement with. Three guys he worked with in the last few years were Dennis Kucinich, Alan Grayson, and Barney Frank. That's also why he has associated with fringe people like Alex Jones or Jesse Ventura. Part of the reason for this is because up until very recently, Ron's views were considering to be on the fringe of American politics but now everybody talks about things like the Federal Reserve, monetary policy, non-interventionism, etc.

Is that a poor judge of character? Maybe but certainly no where close to poor judge of character people displayed by trusting someone like Barack Obama who reneged on almost everything he supposedly stood for.


yeah but he didn't employ those people or authorize them to put his name and signature on publications.


'And in retrospect that was a mistake. The vast majority of the newsletters were fine but in the latter years when he left office, he didn't keep a good enough eye on it. Anyone that knows anything about Ron Paul knows that he doesn't support these views and his record is a testament to that.

What are the actual real world consequences of this mistake compared to the "mistakes" the other candidates have made tho? If this is the worst thing Ron has done in his entire life, he's a saint compared to 99.9% of the politicians in this world. His mistake isn't anything compared to the "mistake" of blowing up a school or mosque full of innocent people.



snapcap
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24 Dec 2011, 2:54 pm

Ron Paul Was Scheduled to Appear on a White Supremacist Radio Show in 2006

Quote:
The New Republic has made available a collection of Ron Paul’s ugliest newsletters, and if you haven’t seen how bad this stuff is yet, you may be shocked.

I think it’s amazing and sad that this hasn’t been a political problem for Ron Paul before now. The content of these newsletters is so extreme and hateful, it’s disturbing indeed that a politician can rise to a very high national office and even run for President with views like these — and it’s obvious that Ron Paul could not possibly have been unaware of what was in the newsletters, published under his name.

And now there’s still more evidence of Ron Paul’s connections to the white supremacist far right.


Adam Holland: Did Ron Paul appear on white supremacist radio show?


Friday, December 23, 2011

Quote:
According to a contemporaneous blog post by a Ron Paul supporter, Ron Paul appeared on the nation's most popular white supremacist radio program, The Political Cesspool. That program is associated with the Council of Conservative Citizens (formerly known as the White Citizens Councils) and had been supportive of David Duke and others of that ilk. It's sponsors include the Institute for Historical Review, the nation's largest organization devoted to Holocaust denial.


UPDATE (12/24/2011 11:00 AM):

Quote:
I've found conflicting evidence concerning whether Ron Paul appeared on the Political Cesspool show. First, confirmation that he was scheduled to appear on the program has been found in a notice written by the program's host posted on the neo-Nazi Stormfront website. A screenshot of the notice can be seen below. For those who want to see the original, click here.



Stormfront- Ron Paul to appear on The Political Cesspool Radioshow



Quote:
We have also confirmed an interview with U.S. Congressman Ron Paul (R - TX), which will take place next week. Stay tuned to The Political Cesspool for more information as we continue to fight to put America First with no retreat, no surrender and no apologies!


The show was scheduled to occur on 8/11/2006

Here is the show archive

The Political Cesspool Archive

Doesn't mention anything about Paul appearing.

Oh you guys!



Jacoby
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24 Dec 2011, 2:58 pm

pandabear wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
watch the full interview, there is a reason why the didn't air the whole thing. Gloria Borger came off as desperate and unprofessional.

Mr. Paul comes off a desperate and unprofessional. And, as very sensitive about the issue, as if he is trying hide something.


Jacoby wrote:
If Ron is guilty of anything, he is guilty of being to trusting of people he thought supported him.

He is guilty of fraud. He made money off of selling high-priced subscriptions to people who thought that they were reading Mr. Paul's material, when they were reading material that he was totally against.


Is Obama guilty of defrauding the American people? Why do you support a murderer?



pandabear
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24 Dec 2011, 3:48 pm

snapcap wrote:


I don't necessarily have a problem with Mr. Paul appearing once on a White Supremacist radio show, depending upon what he said there. Maybe he showed up there to argue against them, which would be great.



pandabear
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24 Dec 2011, 3:49 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Is Obama guilty of defrauding the American people? Why do you support a murderer?


Stop trolling, or you'll be in trouble. We are discussing Mr. Paul in this thread.



pandabear
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26 Dec 2011, 12:54 pm

On the other hand, I do give Ron Paul credit for thinking independently, and for bringing some actual ideas to the campaign, even though I do not agree with most of his ideas.

In particular, this letter about Ronald Reagan is priceless:

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2011/09/07 ... ld-reagan/

Quote:
President Reagan, as governor of California, had a line-item veto and virtually never used it. As President he has failed to exercise his constitutional responsibility to veto spending. Instead, he has encouraged it.

Monetary policy has been disastrous as well. The five Reagan appointees to the Federal Reserve Board have advocated even faster monetary inflation than Chairman Volcker, and this is the fourth straight year of double-digit increases. The chickens have yet to come home to roost, but they will, and America will suffer from a Reaganomics that is nothing but warmed-over Keynesianism.

Candidate Reagan in 1980 correctly opposed draft registration. Yet when he had the chance to abolish it, he reneged, as he did on his pledge to abolish the Departments of Education and Energy, or to work against abortion.

Under the guise of attacking drug use and money laundering, the Republican Administration has systematically attacked personal and financial privacy. The effect has been to victimize innocent Americans who wish to conduct their private lives without government snooping. (Should people really be put on a suspected drug dealer list because they transfer $3,000 at one time?) Reagan’s urine testing of Americans without probable cause is a clear violation of our civil liberties, as are his proposals for extensive “lie detector” tests.

Under Reagan, the IRS has grown bigger, richer, more powerful, and more arrogant. In the words of the founders of our country, our government has “sent hither swarms” of tax gatherers “to harass our people and eat out their substance.” His officers jailed the innocent George Hansen, with the President refusing to pardon a great American whose only crime was to defend the Constitution. Reagan’s new tax “reform” gives even more power to the IRS. Far from making taxes fairer or simpler, it deceitfully raises more revenue for the government to waste.

Knowing this administration’s record, I wasn’t surprised by its Libyan disinformation campaign, Israeli-Iranian arms-for-hostages swap, or illegal funding of the Contras. All this has contributed to my disenchantment with the Republican Party, and helped me make up my mind.


For lamestream Repugnicans, Reagan has gone from being denounced for advocating "voodoo economics" to being worshipped as a God.

Still, Mr. Paul is going to have to come up with a better explanation for his newsletters, particularly if he seems to be threatening to take the lead, and the other candidates start to make hay about them. His hard-core supporters will buy anything he says, and perceive a conspiracy of media, freedom-haters, and trolls trying to take him down. But, other people aren't going to buy this explanation.



Jacoby
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26 Dec 2011, 3:46 pm

What explanation do you need besides he didn't write them, he didn't know what was being written at the time, and that he completely disavows those views?

and yes, Ron opposed Reagan's expansion of government when he was in office but he also was one of Reagan's first supporters when he decided to seek the presidency in 1976. He actually has principles and won't turn a blind eye to something simply because his party is the one doing it. If only voters could follow the same standard maybe we wouldn't have such lying politicians.



pandabear
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26 Dec 2011, 4:06 pm

Jacoby wrote:
What explanation do you need besides he didn't write them, he didn't know what was being written at the time, and that he completely disavows those views?
.


This explanation does suggest fraud: people were paying quite a lot of money for these newsletters, he did make money from the newsletters, and most of the subscribers didn't know that Ron Paul not only didn't know what was being written in the newsletters, but he was completely against them.



Jacoby
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26 Dec 2011, 5:25 pm

pandabear wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
What explanation do you need besides he didn't write them, he didn't know what was being written at the time, and that he completely disavows those views?
.


This explanation does suggest fraud: people were paying quite a lot of money for these newsletters, he did make money from the newsletters, and most of the subscribers didn't know that Ron Paul not only didn't know what was being written in the newsletters, but he was completely against them.


The practice of ghostwriting and autopenning didn't start and end with this newsletter. It's a common practice, especially in politics that almost everyone is "guilty" of including Obama.

You seem to be under the false assumption that the entire newsletters the entire time they were published were racist when in reality those offensives sentences only made up an insignificant fraction of the hundreds of newsletters that were published over something like 15 years. Just because some idiot wrote something he obviously disagrees with doesn't mean the entire newsletter was bad.



pandabear
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26 Dec 2011, 6:02 pm

Well, okay. We shall see how this plays out over the next couple of weeks. If he does well, then the other candidates will probably be making a ruckus about his newsletters. If not, then, oh well.



Master_Pedant
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26 Dec 2011, 6:36 pm

pandabear wrote:
VIDEODROME wrote:
That doesn't look anything like his regular signature.


Do you think that one was forged? Here are some samples of his signature

Image



Honestly, some members of the American Anti-War left devolved into a blinkered, single-issue stupidity in embracing Ron Paul. I recall on different Web Forum, back in 2007, there was some left-progressive who regularly stridently advocated for pro-choice positions, in very moralistic terms. Then, one day, she starts shilling for Ron Paul - apparently unable to comprehend his pledge to veto any bill that respects women's reproductive rights when it comes to terminating pregnancies.


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Master_Pedant
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26 Dec 2011, 6:38 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

3: Ron Paul is a clever manipulator who knows how to get crazy rednecks to vote for him and give him money.

4: Ron Paul is a presidential candidate with a track record of not really caring what his staffers do in his name.

Why he picked option 4 is beyond my understanding. I don't see how it is better than any of the above.


Some combo of 3 & 4. Paul, let's just say, is willfully ignorant of what his local staffers do to get him re-elected.


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Master_Pedant
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26 Dec 2011, 6:46 pm

Jacoby wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
watch the full interview, there is a reason why the didn't air the whole thing. Gloria Borger came off as desperate and unprofessional.

Mr. Paul comes off a desperate and unprofessional. And, as very sensitive about the issue, as if he is trying hide something.


Jacoby wrote:
If Ron is guilty of anything, he is guilty of being to trusting of people he thought supported him.

He is guilty of fraud. He made money off of selling high-priced subscriptions to people who thought that they were reading Mr. Paul's material, when they were reading material that he was totally against.


Is Obama guilty of defrauding the American people? Why do you support a murderer?


http://www.fallacyfiles.org/tuquoque.html

Jacoby, stop derailing this thread. We're talking about RON PAUL and his colossal negligence in mailing out various newsletters full of batsh*t material, which give the impression that they're HIS personal opinions, when really he has an army of lunatic minions write them and then stamps his signature on them.

And, strictly speaking, I've never seen Pandabear write "I endorse Obama for President". Most of his posts are criticisms of Republican dumbassitude, which isn't logically equal to "I'm endorsing Obama".


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Jacoby
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26 Dec 2011, 8:06 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
watch the full interview, there is a reason why the didn't air the whole thing. Gloria Borger came off as desperate and unprofessional.

Mr. Paul comes off a desperate and unprofessional. And, as very sensitive about the issue, as if he is trying hide something.


Jacoby wrote:
If Ron is guilty of anything, he is guilty of being to trusting of people he thought supported him.

He is guilty of fraud. He made money off of selling high-priced subscriptions to people who thought that they were reading Mr. Paul's material, when they were reading material that he was totally against.


Is Obama guilty of defrauding the American people? Why do you support a murderer?


http://www.fallacyfiles.org/tuquoque.html

Jacoby, stop derailing this thread. We're talking about RON PAUL and his colossal negligence in mailing out various newsletters full of batsh*t material, which give the impression that they're HIS personal opinions, when really he has an army of lunatic minions write them and then stamps his signature on them.

And, strictly speaking, I've never seen Pandabear write "I endorse Obama for President". Most of his posts are criticisms of Republican dumbassitude, which isn't logically equal to "I'm endorsing Obama".


I believe Panda has said on more than one occasion that he will be voting for Barack Obama, he can correct me if I'm wrong.

When the subject of competency and trustworthiness to be president comes up, I think it's perfectly legitimate to question the other candidates especially when I believe the questions posed about Paul on these letters have already been thoroughly answered.



Master_Pedant
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27 Dec 2011, 3:22 am

Jacoby wrote:
When the subject of competency and trustworthiness to be president comes up, I think it's perfectly legitimate to question the other candidates especially when I believe the questions posed about Paul on these letters have already been thoroughly answered.


There's no relation at all, unless you're trying to shift the topic from "the newsletter written in Paul's name is pretty shady" to "the other candidates are [just as, more] shady".

By the way, other people don't believe you or Paul's other fans have addressed the issue the nutbar letters ghostwritten with his stamp of approval at all, which is what the debate is all about (before, that is, you tried shifting the subject matter).


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dmm1010
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27 Dec 2011, 6:12 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Honestly, some members of the American Anti-War left devolved into a blinkered, single-issue stupidity in embracing Ron Paul. I recall on different Web Forum, back in 2007, there was some left-progressive who regularly stridently advocated for pro-choice positions, in very moralistic terms. Then, one day, she starts shilling for Ron Paul - apparently unable to comprehend his pledge to veto any bill that respects women's reproductive rights when it comes to terminating pregnancies.

Such bills likely should be vetoed. The idea that the federal government ought to regulate access to abortion in any way is, in my opinion, ridiculous.