Why do Fundies have such a HUGE Persecution Complex?

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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Jan 2012, 4:43 pm

Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.



JakobVirgil
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09 Jan 2012, 4:45 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.

cite or shut up
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For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


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pandabear
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09 Jan 2012, 4:58 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.


That's rather silly. And you say that Fundies have a persecution complex, besides?



iamnotaparakeet
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09 Jan 2012, 5:04 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.

cite or shut up


Matthew 5:11-20; Leviticus 18:22-30, 20:13; John 3:16-21.



Orwell
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09 Jan 2012, 5:25 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.

So then it is similarly impossible for unrepentant bacon-eaters and beard-shavers to get into Heaven. At least they won't be running out of room up there anytime soon.


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iamnotaparakeet
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09 Jan 2012, 5:32 pm

Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.

So then it is similarly impossible for unrepentant bacon-eaters and beard-shavers to get into Heaven. At least they won't be running out of room up there anytime soon.


Oh yes, right, the whole kosher laws and appearance is so equivalent to moral issues.



pandabear
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09 Jan 2012, 5:38 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.

cite or shut up


Matthew 5:11-20; Leviticus 18:22-30, 20:13; John 3:16-21.


Matthew wrote:
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.


Okay, this seems like a scripturally valid reason for a Christian to cultivate and maintain a persecution complex.

Matthew wrote:
...
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


So, no pork chops either?

John wrote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


This doesn't say that one must not practise sodomy. Anyone (Sodomite or not) who believes in Jesus will have everlasting life. Jesus never says anything against queers, but he does have a go at rich people. Apparently, it is the rich who have the most difficulty in gaining everlasting life.

Leviticus wrote:
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
(For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.
...
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


For one thing, this applied only to the Jews. For another, this doesn't say that a sodomite who believes in Jesus cannot have everlasting life. Sodomites were to receive only a temporal punishment: execution. It does not say that they are to be excluded from Heaven.



pandabear
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09 Jan 2012, 5:40 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Orwell wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Such would negate that Christ is your Lord, thus invalidating the rest.

So then it is similarly impossible for unrepentant bacon-eaters and beard-shavers to get into Heaven. At least they won't be running out of room up there anytime soon.


Oh yes, right, the whole kosher laws and appearance is so equivalent to moral issues.


Do you really keep up with all of the kosher laws?



iamnotaparakeet
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09 Jan 2012, 5:51 pm

Your point either way? If I say I don't, then you'd just say, "every sin's equivalent! blah blah blah blah blah!" and if I say I do, then you or another would have yet other crap to say.



iamnotaparakeet
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09 Jan 2012, 5:52 pm

Matthew 5:11-20; Leviticus 18:22-30, 20:13; John 3:16-21. You and your ilk seem to be unable to grasp the relevance, but that's just due to your intentional wordgames which you learned from your father.



pandabear
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09 Jan 2012, 6:01 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Matthew 5:11-20; Leviticus 18:22-30, 20:13; John 3:16-21. You and your ilk seem to be unable to grasp the relevance, but that's just due to your intentional wordgames which you learned from your father.


Okay. What is the relevance, then?



Fnord
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09 Jan 2012, 6:06 pm

pandabear wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Matthew 5:11-20; Leviticus 18:22-30, 20:13; John 3:16-21. You and your ilk seem to be unable to grasp the relevance, but that's just due to your intentional wordgames which you learned from your father.
Okay. What is the relevance, then?

I don't get it either, but here it is.

Quote:
Leviticus 20:13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Quote:
Leviticus 18:22-30 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable. ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.’”

Quote:
Matthew 5:11-20 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Quote:
John 3:16-21 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

Enjoy!



Kraichgauer
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09 Jan 2012, 7:08 pm

Oh, how those terrible sodomites are victimizing those poor, poor fundies by refusing to be marginalized as second class citizens, and by demanding equal protection under the law from physical violence directed at them for their sexual orientation!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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09 Jan 2012, 7:09 pm

The problem is that the whole "porkchop" issue is a bit of nonsense.

Mar 7:19 "since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.)"

The "thus he declared all foods clean" is found as the writing in a number of Bibles. What it means is that the Bible says that after Jesus, it is ok to eat porkchops. Failing to recognize this is failing Biblical literacy 101.

Beards are more complicated, as some pro-beard teachings exist in the early church.

I think 'keet's issue of morality needs to be outlined better for him to make his case.

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Oh yes, right, the whole kosher laws and appearance is so equivalent to moral issues.
After all, following God's rules is always a moral issue, AND it is not clear that the other rules are less arbitrary than the other ones without some theological clarification. (The nature of which is difficult because the shift between OT and NT laws is not fully explicit)



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09 Jan 2012, 7:54 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
The problem is that the whole "porkchop" issue is a bit of nonsense.

Mar 7:19 "since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.)"

The "thus he declared all foods clean" is found as the writing in a number of Bibles. What it means is that the Bible says that after Jesus, it is ok to eat porkchops. Failing to recognize this is failing Biblical literacy 101.

Beards are more complicated, as some pro-beard teachings exist in the early church.

I think 'keet's issue of morality needs to be outlined better for him to make his case.
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Oh yes, right, the whole kosher laws and appearance is so equivalent to moral issues.
After all, following God's rules is always a moral issue, AND it is not clear that the other rules are less arbitrary than the other ones without some theological clarification. (The nature of which is difficult because the shift between OT and NT laws is not fully explicit)

The problem is that no justification is given for discarding the portions of Levitican law that fundies no longer like, while retaining the ones that support their prejudices. There is that passage discarding the old food laws, but there's plenty else in there that isn't followed either.


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09 Jan 2012, 8:22 pm

Orwell wrote:
The problem is that no justification is given for discarding the portions of Levitican law that fundies no longer like, while retaining the ones that support their prejudices. There is that passage discarding the old food laws, but there's plenty else in there that isn't followed either.


There is a commandment for all Israelites to carry a shovel to buryh their poop. The idea is that when G_D walks in the camp of His people He should not step in Jew Doo. Deut: 22 - 24. So if Christians really want to follow the bible they will carry a shovel to bury their poop. And then of course, and I hate to bring it up, is the matter of circumcising all the male children. That is not negotiable under Levitical law.

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