Does anyone else not believe in feminism?

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Tadzio
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23 Jan 2012, 11:40 pm

91 wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

emergency situation the most likely survivors are young healthy males because they are bigger and stronger. one of the strongest predictors of survival in a plane crash is to be a young healthy male. people usually seek to save themselves and will do everything they can to survive, even if that means climbing over little old ladies or pushing kids out of the way to get to safety. but maybe the costant mantra of "women and children first" will allow some females and kids to survive too.

I believe that women and children should go first because as a male who is physically strong I see my reason for having this strength as existing only so that I can protect those who are not necessary capable of defending themselves. Men are strong only so that they can meet their responsibility to protect others. Men who use their strength otherwise are not worthy of the name.

Esther Vilar calls this "The Manipulated Man" effect, which is strangely synonymous with "The Male Chauvinist Pig" self-reviewed policy of self-righteousness.

Tadzio

91
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23 Jan 2012, 11:46 pm

Tadzio wrote:

Esther Vilar calls this "The Manipulated Man" effect, which is strangely synonymous with "The Male Chauvinist Pig" self-reviewed policy of self-righteousness.

Tadzio

They can call it whatever they like. I have heard freedom called repression before, so lets not equivocate. A man is strong, so he can protect people, the inverse is a terrible world to live in; because in both men are still generally naturally stronger. That reality will come out some other way, so the only answer we really have to offer men, is discipline and responsibility and I can't see any good reason why we should think this is a bad idea. A man dedicated to an idea can be called a slave to it, but only by someone who does not appreciate the virtues of the position he is taking.

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Tadzio
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24 Jan 2012, 12:01 am

91 wrote:

Tadzio wrote:

Esther Vilar calls this "The Manipulated Man" effect, which is strangely synonymous with "The Male Chauvinist Pig" self-reviewed policy of self-righteousness.

Tadzio

Hi 91,

The prejudicial assumption based upon only the bigotry that "man is strong" is nonsense. I don't wish to be subjected to the consequences of such nonsense. The myth of "man is strong" is as bad as the Aryan Myth, and the big batch of lies underlying homophobia, plus all the other bigotries. And, bigoted nonsense is not a virtue, no matter the degree of loquacious fluff of "He-Man Mr. Universe Arnold".

Tadzio

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24 Jan 2012, 12:24 am

hyperlexian wrote:

in an emergency situation the most likely survivors are young healthy males because they are bigger and stronger. one of the strongest predictors of survival in a plane crash is to be a young healthy male. people usually seek to save themselves and will do everything they can to survive, even if that means climbing over little old ladies or pushing kids out of the way to get to safety. but maybe the costant mantra of "women and children first" will allow some females and kids to survive too.

Evidence please, as I wish to contact someone I know who works in aviation safety about your claim and there view on that!

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hyperlexian
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24 Jan 2012, 12:28 am

Quote:

Here is the secret to surviving one of these [airplane] crashes: Be male. In a 1970 Civil Aeromedical institute study of three crashes involving emergency evacuations, the most prominent factor influencing survival was gender (followed closely by proximity to exit). Adult males were by far the most likely to get out alive. Why? Presumably because they pushed everyone else out of the way.

Mary Roach, Stiff: The Curious Life of Human Cadavers (link)

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91
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24 Jan 2012, 12:28 am

Tadzio wrote:

Let us start out by establishing that I did not claim that 'man is strong', rather I stated that 'men are in general stronger'. The former is a statement of ideology, the latter is philological reality (http://jp.physoc.org/content/338/1/37.abstract). It is not prejudicial to state that something which is, is. Some women can claim that they do not want to know the difference or can argue that it might be better to ignore it, but I think it is better to accept the reality.

Women have rights and deserve a fair go, they also, generally, live longer. It is not prejudicial to state the reality that women generally live longer; there is no statement of quality in this reality, it simply is. As such, we as a society need to recognize that there are actual differences between genders. Men are generally stronger, I think the best way to react to this is to accept that this strength, ought to come with a sense of instilled discipline and responsibility. A responsibility to protect others who are generally physically weaker, whatever gender or age, from physical threat. Men will seek to use discharge their strength, better that they do so in defense of others, rather than at the expense of others.

The problem with the male gender is not that they step up to meet their responsibilities, its that they increasingly don't. As such, when disasters like the Costa Concordia happen, the Captain is the first off the ship and people react more like this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueh_1PeJhaQ[/youtube]

I personally would rather have Edward Smith as my ship's captain than I would Francesco Schettino.

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24 Jan 2012, 1:50 am

A study of three aircraft crashes over 30 years ago published in a nine year old book.
Back in 2006 ABC news claimed that between 1983 and 2000 there was an over 95% survival rate in US aircraft crashes.
Aviation safety has come a long way head over the last 30 years from when that study was done.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?i ... x5ReGEwmYI

hyperlexian
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24 Jan 2012, 1:52 am

Chipshorter wrote:

you didn't disprove anything i said.

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24 Jan 2012, 2:02 am

alwayswrong wrote:

One issue I have that feminist won't approach is registering for the draft. If my son doesn't do this he can't get financial aid. But my girls don't have to. Feminist don't see this as an issue or relevant.

*sigh*
First of all, 'registering for the draft' currently has no real-world impact other than the time taken to fill out the card. We do not have a draft in the US, and have not had one for decades. No branch of the military wants to return to the draft.
Second, getting women allowed on the front lines has been a sub-cause within feminism for decades, because people who wish to make the military their career do not get promoted unless they have actual battlefield experience. Gender segregation in the military by level of danger (or by submarine/non submarine) is one way that gender roles are enforced in the military. Because of feminism, some occupations (such as 'pilot') are now based on physical criteria alone (ie, is the person the right height, can they pass the necessary physical tests, do they have adequate eyesight, etc) rather than disqualifying otherwise passing women.

91
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24 Jan 2012, 2:03 am

hyperlexian wrote:

Quote:

Mary Roach, Stiff: The Curious Life of Human Cadavers (link)

Here is the report you are looking for:

http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medi ... M63-15.pdf

When the Titanic went down people respected the 'women and children first' mentality, when the Lusitania was torpedoed around the same time they did not. The key point was time, the Lusitania sank quickly the Titanic did not (http://www.pnas.org/content/107/11/4862). The Costa Concordia did not sink quickly, so the Titanic conclusion ought to apply, but society is not what it used to be and the 'women and children first' mentality was no where to be found.

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24 Jan 2012, 2:06 am

totally off topic, but tangential to the idea of captains, men as protectors, and disasters: a retrospective shout-out to Captain Chelsey Sullenberger, who kept his head during an in-flight disaster and saved the lives of a lot of people by his handling of the crisis. It's been a couple of years, and my admiration for that has not dimmed.

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24 Jan 2012, 2:20 am

hyperlexian wrote:

Chipshorter wrote:

you didn't disprove anything i said.

91 got the same pdf I been looking at your claim the study was done in 1970 when according the pdf file states it was done in August 1963.

hyperlexian
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24 Jan 2012, 2:25 am

Chipshorter wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

Chipshorter wrote:

you didn't disprove anything i said.

91 got the same pdf I been looking at your claim the study was done in 1970 when according the pdf file states it was done in August 1963.

so what? do you suppose human nature has changed drastically since 1963? i haven't seen anything from you that shows any other results.

(and thanks for tracking it down, 91. i had actually originally read the information in Stiff)

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Chipshorter
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24 Jan 2012, 2:38 am

hyperlexian wrote:

so what? do you suppose human nature has changed drastically since 1963? i haven't seen anything from you that shows any other results.

I was not alive in the 1960s so how can I answer that then

hyperlexian
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24 Jan 2012, 8:07 am

Chipshorter wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

so what? do you suppose human nature has changed drastically since 1963? i haven't seen anything from you that shows any other results.

I was not alive in the 1960s so how can I answer that then

. ok, how about since 1983? you can extrapolate from there.

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24 Jan 2012, 11:22 am

hyperlexian wrote:

Chipshorter wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

so what? do you suppose human nature has changed drastically since 1963? i haven't seen anything from you that shows any other results.

I was not alive in the 1960s so how can I answer that then

. ok, how about since 1983? you can extrapolate from there.

lol take years off the ty, can't you wait in intill next month as its my birthday then :wink:

joking aside am not feeling very well today i cant think staght been shutting down a lot, got a bad migraine plus am strees out over person issues. i what to non verbal at mo if you don't mind.

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