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TheKing
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30 Jan 2012, 1:25 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

TheKing wrote:

well in countries that are theocracies, civil rights are notoriously nonexistent, women generally have little to no rights, you can be legally murdered for not being the same religion, zealotry runs rampant perverting every sector of society, progress is punishable by death because its heretical....unless its purpose is destruction, countries that are theocracies are 99.9% of the time third world countries constantly in one devastating war or another causing countless deaths and much property damage.

yes OP, OBVIOUSLY religion is the right way to go, society will thrive greatly in that kind of oh so family friendly environment

you can write volumes on the subject of why religion and government should NEVER control one another as you suggest they should

Prove it.
Not all religions are the same.
There is no coerce in Christianity,although it exists in Roman Catholicism.

all one needs to do is look at countries that are theocracies, i am referring to the Middle East but im sure you remember the Middle Ages quite welll

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donnie_darko
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30 Jan 2012, 1:25 am

abacacus wrote:

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

To Abacacus:
Please prove that in Christianity pi=3,thanks.
If you live in Dolchavia,you will know what I mean.
My first language is not English,if it is incoherent,I am pretty sorry.

And he [Hiram] made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one rim to the other it was round all about, and...a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about....And it was an hand breadth thick...." — First Kings, chapter 7, verses 23 and 26

The only way I can interpret that, is the that the diameter of the sea was ten cubits.

However, if the diameter is ten cubits the circumference would be 31.4 cubits. By saying it was 30 cubits around, it says pi=3.

It was an approximation. I don't think digits even existed back then.

abacacus
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30 Jan 2012, 1:26 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

OK.We say that pure atheism is a belief that God does not exist.
Atheism is lack of religion.
Lacking religion could cause severe problems.

I ask you a question,abacacus

If the authority in your country force you to claim that 2+2=5,otherwise you will get killed,will you comply with the authority or not?
If the society is full of Atheists,when everybody is faced with that choice:claim 2+2=5 publicly or death,how many people will stand up and defend 2+2=4?

I know some will.But most will not.

I am going to say 2+2=4

In conventional mathematics it does anyway. I was once shown proof that 1+1=3 :lol:

Now a question for you, if your society demand you to admit pi is 3.14(continue digits here in to infinity) are you going to say it is or say that it is only 3, because the bible says it is three?

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donnie_darko
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30 Jan 2012, 1:27 am

abacacus wrote:

I said atheism was about facts, not that it was a fact.

Atheists believe in what can be proven, not what we are told to believe.

Oh okay. I thought what you meant by 'atheism is about facts' is that atheism itself, is a fact and not an opinion.

Czeslaw_Kowalski
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30 Jan 2012, 1:27 am

[quote="abacacus"]I said atheism was about facts, not that it was a fact.

Atheists believe in what can be proven, not what we are told to believe.[/quote

It is wrong.
If your Nazis or Commies come to power in your country and you have no chance to emigrate.
Will you be with them or will you die for democracy?
Atheism is vunerable to POWER and FORCE.

abacacus
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30 Jan 2012, 1:29 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

abacacus wrote:

I said atheism was about facts, not that it was a fact.

Atheists believe in what can be proven, not what we are told to believe.[/quote

It is wrong.
If your Nazis or Commies come to power in your country and you have no chance to emigrate.
Will you be with them or will you die for democracy?
Atheism is vunerable to POWER and FORCE.

Atheism is wrong?

Prove to me beyond any shadow of a doubt that god exists. Unless you do so, I will continue to be VERY doubtful about the existence of god and remain an atheist.

Nazi's, I'd leave. I don't believe in Nazism.

Communists, I'd stay and see what happened. I am a Socialist, living in a Socialist country.

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abacacus
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30 Jan 2012, 1:30 am

donnie_darko wrote:

abacacus wrote:

I said atheism was about facts, not that it was a fact.

Atheists believe in what can be proven, not what we are told to believe.

Oh okay. I thought what you meant by 'atheism is about facts' is that atheism itself, is a fact and not an opinion.

No religion (in this case I'll include atheism) can be proved beyond any shadow of a doubt. No religions are fact, and neither is the lack of one.

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Czeslaw_Kowalski
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30 Jan 2012, 1:31 am

abacacus wrote:

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

I am going to say 2+2=4

In conventional mathematics it does anyway. I was once shown proof that 1+1=3 :lol:

Now a question for you, if your society demand you to admit pi is 3.14(continue digits here in to infinity) are you going to say it is or say that it is only 3, because the bible says it is three?

I will say pi is above 3.14
The Bible does not mean that it is 3.
We could sense what in the Bible is about faith and what is not.

You are a nice person.
You say 2+2=4,but most people will say 2+2=5 and survive.
The society falles into 2+2=5.
If people are more religious,there will be many people who stand up and say 2+2=4
They will hold demonstrations and storm the presidental palace
Nazis could be removed from power.
But we need enough people who want to risk their lives for 2+2=4,otherwise those who say 2+2=4 will get killed and we could never leave Oceania

LKL
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30 Jan 2012, 1:31 am

@ Czeslaw_Kowalski:
You say you live in an atheistic, Orwellian country, but the only reference we have to explore this claim is a country name that cannot be googled. Please provide physical, geographic orientations for the Orwellian country you live in, so that we can look up the conditions for ourselves, or provide some other solid support for your claim that atheism leads to Orwellian conditions (given that Hitler was raised a Christian, used Christianity in his seminal work 'Mein Kampf,' and made repeated references to Christian theology throughout his reign, your 'Hitler was not a true Christian' clam looks like nothing so much as a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.

abacacus
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30 Jan 2012, 1:35 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

So you will deny what your holy book says to survive, because you do not believe what it says.
You are not a true christian, you do not believe in the bible fully.

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Czeslaw_Kowalski
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30 Jan 2012, 1:37 am

LKL wrote:

I love logic,I know what is "no true Scotsman" fallacy.
But the definition of a true Christian is very simple.
Those who abide by the Bible are defined as true Christians.

Hitler contradicted the Bible because he killed and the Bible did not permit killing.

Matthew 5:21-22(ASV)
21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

The Bible defines who is a true Christian,not me.

TheKing
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30 Jan 2012, 1:38 am

abacacus wrote:

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

So you will deny what your holy book says to survive, because you do not believe what it says.
You are not a true christian, you do not believe in the bible fully.

i have come to the conclusion he is a troll, either that or severely ignorant though i don't know which is worse

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abacacus
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30 Jan 2012, 1:39 am

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

LKL wrote:

The bible also tells people to kill. Which is it?

A contradiction in the bible.

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Czeslaw_Kowalski
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30 Jan 2012, 1:40 am

abacacus wrote:

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

So you will deny what your holy book says to survive, because you do not believe what it says.
You are not a true christian, you do not believe in the bible fully.

I am a Christian,though not a Fundimentalist.
I believe in Bible Infallibility,not Bible Inerrancy.
While I claimed that I was in another post,I took a quiz in the OKCupid and find out that I am not.

abacacus
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30 Jan 2012, 1:42 am

Yep. Your a troll.

Goodbye, I am done with argument.

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Czeslaw_Kowalski
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30 Jan 2012, 1:44 am

abacacus wrote:

Czeslaw_Kowalski wrote:

LKL wrote:

The bible also tells people to kill. Which is it?

A contradiction in the bible.

It is in different cases.
Actually it is a problem in theology,and I am not good at it.
I believe in abrogation of older laws.
I eat pork,for example.

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