[POLL] Where are you politically?

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Where are you politically?

Liberal	13%	[ 13 ]
Conservative	10%	[ 10 ]
Moderate	7%	[ 7 ]
Socialist	13%	[ 13 ]
Libertarian	15%	[ 15 ]
Authoritarian	1%	[ 1 ]
Anarchist	5%	[ 5 ]
Communist	3%	[ 3 ]
Centrist	6%	[ 6 ]
Mixture of a few	20%	[ 20 ]
Other	9%	[ 9 ]

Total votes : 102

Tequila
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13 Mar 2012, 7:28 am

puddingmouse wrote:

I don't think it's deliberate national sabotage. I assume stupidity rather than malice in most cases, this is no exception.

Why the obsession with stifling all debate then?

Mummy_of_Peanut
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13 Mar 2012, 7:30 am

In the UK, there is no political party that I can say represents my beliefs. I was a Labour supporter, but Labour is no longer what they were and, any time they attempt to be that party again, they are criticised for it. I will vote for them again, if they go back to being clearly left wing. Meantime, I'll vote Scottish Nationalist, not because I really want an independent Scotland (I'm undecided on that), but because their other policies are closer to my way of thinking than the other parties' policies. E.g. they've arranged the budget to keep further education free, which is fine by me. If I'm honest, I really am a communist, in the idealist (or hippy) sense of the word, not the twisted version that the world ended up with. But, it's pie in the sky, the world of sci-fi and I'm also a realist.

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donnie_darko
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13 Mar 2012, 7:33 am

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:

If I'm honest, I really am a communist, in the idealist (or hippy) sense of the word, not the twisted version that the world ended up with. But, it's pie in the sky, the world of sci-fi and I'm also a realist.

Why is capitalism the only realistic option? Quite to the contrary, this economic crisis is more of a true failure of capitalism than the events of 1989 were of communism.

scubasteve
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13 Mar 2012, 7:33 am

Raptor wrote:

scubasteve wrote:

Tequila wrote:

scubasteve wrote:

He's American. It doesn't mean that here.

I wouldn't use it because people - on the left - will use that as a slur. Calling someone "far-right" when they aren't is a pretty serious insult here.

That's interesting to note. I'll be careful never to use the term in Britain.

In America though it just means "very conservative" and is not considered an insult. For that, we would use the terms "nazi" or "fascist", as both the left and the right have unfortunately been known to do.

The left thinks the right are all nazis and the right thinks the left are all communists.

Only for some reason, the right compares Obama to Hitler rather than Stalin. [shrugs]

puddingmouse
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13 Mar 2012, 7:34 am

Tequila wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

I don't think it's deliberate national sabotage. I assume stupidity rather than malice in most cases, this is no exception.

Why the obsession with stifling all debate then?

Head in the sand? I think it's a case of:

'This seems like a good idea'...
'Oh s**t, they're doing honour killings and hating on gays! I didn't think that would happen'...
'Quick, call anyone who criticises this stuff racist, so that we don't lose face.'

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Tequila
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13 Mar 2012, 7:39 am

puddingmouse wrote:

Head in the sand?'

If that really is the case, how do we get past that though, so that genuine nasty stuff doesn't happen and the likes of Wilders don't come to power?

I think actually believing in freedom would be a big start. By facing these people down.

puddingmouse
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13 Mar 2012, 7:43 am

Tequila wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

Head in the sand?'

I don't know what to suggest, other than the social liberals in this country growing a pair and being intellectually honest.

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Mummy_of_Peanut
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13 Mar 2012, 7:49 am

donnie_darko wrote:

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:

Why is capitalism the only realistic option? Quite to the contrary, this economic crisis is more of a true failure of capitalism than the events of 1989 were of communism.

Maybe my dreams will become reality. But, given that my 6yr old daughter has just been given a homework exercise aimed at promoting capitalism, my hope for the future is taking a blow. Are you up for a revolution? :wink:

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donnie_darko
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13 Mar 2012, 7:51 am

Donny_Darko wrote:

Why is capitalism the only realistic option? Quite to the contrary, this economic crisis is more of a true failure of capitalism than the events of 1989 were of communism.

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:

why yes of course

In all seriousness though, communism is making a huge comeback. People declared it dead in the 1990s, but now that capitalism seems to be in dire straits, and people are realizing the Soviets were never true communists to begin with, is it REALLY proven wrong?

[Edit by mod - I'm trying to fix the quotes so it's obvious who they are by - Mummy_of_Peanut]

Chipshorter
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13 Mar 2012, 7:54 am

AstroGeek wrote:

Chipshorter wrote:

all for kicking Canada out of the Commonwealth.

For what reason? Our deplorable record on climate change action? The way we've ghettoized First Nations? Those would be the big two reasons I can think of, although I'm sure that there are others.

Them plus the attitude change over the last ten years with Canadans I deal with, you people are not Anglophiles like you use to be your more arrogant like the Yanks, Canada now is just a whatanabe America.

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Chipshorter
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13 Mar 2012, 8:00 am

Tequila wrote:

AstroGeek wrote:

For what reason? Our deplorable record on climate change action? The way we've ghettoized First Nations? Those would be the big two reasons I can think of, although I'm sure that there are others.

Celline Dion!

She's a perfect reason to nuke Canada, now please give me the Trident go codes as I'll happily press the red button :twisted:

noname_ever
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13 Mar 2012, 8:04 am

scubasteve wrote:

Raptor wrote:

scubasteve wrote:

Tequila wrote:

scubasteve wrote:

He's American. It doesn't mean that here.

I wouldn't use it because people - on the left - will use that as a slur. Calling someone "far-right" when they aren't is a pretty serious insult here.

The left thinks the right are all nazis and the right thinks the left are all communists.

Only for some reason, the right compares Obama to Hitler rather than Stalin. [shrugs]

It depends how you model him. On politicalcompass, Obama is definitely closer to Hitler (a centrist economically) than Stalin.

ruveyn
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13 Mar 2012, 8:05 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

Leftish egalitarian - probably some mix of Fabian socialism watered down with liberalism, i.e. social democracy. Supportive of Saxon style Co-Determination, the cooperative sector, and a plethora of social welfare measures.

Paid for by people who are charged with the cost whether or not they desire the services. If an individual did that to other people, he would be convicted of theft and extortion.

ruveyn

Tequila
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13 Mar 2012, 8:07 am

puddingmouse wrote:

I don't know what to suggest, other than the social liberals in this country growing a pair and being intellectually honest.

FWIW, this and other reasons is why I moved away from the Lib Dems.

Mummy_of_Peanut
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13 Mar 2012, 8:09 am

donnie_darko wrote:

I know, that's a common conversation I have with people. It wasn't true communism, otherwise how come we suddenly had all these Russian billionaires, just as communism in the Soviet Union fell. It's taking a while for the penny to click.

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scubasteve
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13 Mar 2012, 8:12 am

donnie_darko wrote:

Why is capitalism the only realistic option? Quite to the contrary, this economic crisis is more of a true failure of capitalism than the events of 1989 were of communism.

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:

donnie_darko wrote:

why yes of course

Communism was already dying in the Brezhnev years. The events of 1989 were inevitable. Soviet communism wasn't "true" communism, in the sense that the term was originally synonymous with socialism. But consider the reasons why it may have diverged. As I posted recently on another thread: Without property, there is no reward. Without rewards, the only way to motivate people is by holding a gun to their head. So that's what the Soviets tried to do. I would argue that this was not their failure, but the failure of Marx's theories to account for human nature, and therefore to be applicable on a national scale.

[Edit by mod - I'm trying to fix the quotes so it's obvious who they are by - Mummy_of_Peanut]

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