America is killing everything

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I don't understand this protectionist, pro-autarky.

Imagine as a family you decided you would not trade with the outside world. So no going to the store; everything would have to be made by the family--clothes, food, everything. Now expand that on a national scale. That is protectionism.

"It doesn't matter if other countries are better able to produce certain goods. It doesn't matter how much benefit we will get from trade. We'll do it on our own!"

I don't believe in the plan economy. But that doesn't take away that globalization can pose certain downsides. That doesn't necessarily imply that we should cut ourselves off of the world and musn't let succesful corporations get more succesful and supporting our weak economy.

Nonsense. For example the State of New Jersey is paved over with veggy farms and farm stands. They don't call New Jersey the Garden State for nothing. I get first rate fresh produce at the local farm stands and the Big Box stores and supermarket chains also do very well. If you don't like big chains, don't shop there.

ruveyn

I agree with this. Many multinational corporations that originated in America have more wealth than some small countries.

I don't think it's an issue of nationalism though. The corporations don't have any particular allegiance to the US, or the the American people. Many of them export labor and jobs out of the US--just showing that they really couldn't care less about being "American" companies.

And I do think that ethical consumerism is in order. Sure, many of us are programmed to try to get the best product at the cheapest price, but nowa days our brains should also be able to compute the environmental and humanitarian costs. Do we want to support a system that is basically psychopathic? Or do we want to think about the human side of manufacturing. The organic, fair trade, and green goods movement is proof that consumers are beginning to catch up with globalization and make choices more aligned with their ethical systems.

I think it's important to remember that the "American" culture represented by Corporate America is just mimicry of the actual sub-culture it came from. Hip hop has rich roots in the African American traditions of music--carried to the continent by African slaves. It's pretty cool, IMO. But that doesn't mean that the top record producers care about the culture that created hip hop--they just care about packaging it and marketing it to the largest population of consumers.

BBQ came from a word meaning "sacred pit fire" in the language of the indigenous peoples of Florida and the Caribbean. Many sauces came from the southern US, where there was an abundance of molasses from the sugar plantations. But the modern version of US BBQ is a culmination of a variety of different cultures. I think it's hard to pin down what "American" culture is--considering this is such a large country, and it's got a rich heritage of immigrants and indigenous.

True, I think it's more a matter of them somehow finding our laws easier in which to accumulate such vast wealth. We have anti-trust laws that are no longer really enforced. The main regulations of the Glass–Steagall Act were done away with, the federal reserve is not a federal bank but a privately owned central one condoned and originally funded by the government (by way of a trick played on a president) which causes our economy to be based on debt and speculation rather than tangible products. Corporations were granted person-hood a long time ago by court decisions regarding laws that were supposed to help blacks, not big business, and by compromises made to help pay for the Civil War, and so forth. It's an accumulation of legal developments (many based on loopholes) and cultural shifts that encourage the greedy rich to get richer and greedier. We now have an economy so convoluted that no single economist can claim to fully understand it. It's not something the people of the US decided, as in "Hey let's develop a culture of greed 'cause that's just how we roll." It wasn't something we or our forebears chose as a nation at all. But we now have a culture that encourages making money and making a lot of it, and blaming the poor for their own problems rather than helping them. Personally I see capitalism as a huge fail, for our country and for many of those our country has influenced.

I find this thread very amusing.

I agree that it's not just consumer choice.

Truthfully, I don't know very much about anti-trust laws, Glass-Steagall, or the privatization of the federal reserve. I think there's a problem with corporate person-hood though. Also, IMO, the anti-union climate really exacerbates the wealth inequality and the lack of voice for the working poor in the country. And then the media monopoly is a problem, because the way that news is presented to the people is filtered through the financial interests of the media conglomerates. Then there's the social environment which uses terms like "communism" and "socialism" as cuss words. People who try to discuss the problems of our system--which isn't even pure capitalism with all the monopolies, get called "anti-American" or "Communist." And then, like you said--the poor are demonized and accused of being "lazy," while they're doing the bulk of all the grunt work which is absolutely necessary for our society's survival.

But I like to focus on what people can do--like choosing to spend their money ethically (when possible). The biggest failure of market capitalism, IMO, is that it violates the claim that people will be payed the value of their contribution to society. That simply isn't the way it works.

It is the customers of the Big Chains that are doing the pushing.

ruveyn

Not always. Those with plenty of money can choose where they spend. If you have a limited budget, though, you're not going to go with more expensive non-chain shopping. I detest Walmart, but there are some things I can't afford not to buy there instead of a more expensive place. It's not a choice, it's survival. But I only buy the items there that I must. Otherwise I shop at more labor friendly, even employee owned places if I can. If my pension was better, I'd stay away from there altogether. Gladly!

You do your buying from the Big Boxes voluntarily. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you. You don't have to buy anything except food or shelter. All other purchases are optional.

ruveyn

life is not isolated and acting as such is ridicoulous

Personally I don't think anyone, even you after that remark, deserves to be put in the "only deserves survival level existence" category. I refuse to be put there, myself. I don't think that makes my choice so ghastly. But you're free to your opinion.

Even so, buying is your choice and who you buy from is your choice. This is your purchases along with the purchases of others disfavor inefficient mom and pop stores, it is the aggregate action of buyers that doom them. Don't blame WalMart.

ruveyn

That is true also what is funny when people bring up global warming or climate change they turn a blind eye towards El Nino and La Nina. 90% of our weather and climate is influenced by the oceans and currents as well lets not forget the shifting of the earths magnetic poles as well.

Don't blame them for having some of their products manufactured by child labor under horrible conditions? I didn't move their business to those factories. I refuse to accept responsibility for it. As I said, I buy as little as possible there, maybe 3 items in 2 months. I have certainly not made them what they are. I suppose you have never shopped there yourself? Or anyplace else that has unethical business practices? You're able to avoid that? Are you certain, even if you try, that you can avoid that? And if you can't, is it your choices at fault or the business's?

All that is legal in China. And what WalMart sells is legal in the U.S.

It is not my function to police the ethics of other people or of business firms. As long as they don't cheat me I have no beef.

Go buy where you feel like buying. Es su dinero.

ruveyn