The Westboro Baptist Church and other Bible Thumpers

Page 4 of 13 [ 197 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 13 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

21 Jul 2012, 1:14 am

AspieOtaku wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFs1vj2A3YE[/youtube] :lol:

For once, I'm happy to see someone get tasered. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

21 Jul 2012, 1:30 am

To be honest, I think some of their speech goes well over the line. I can't believe that Americans allow these people to picket funerals and so forth. Frankly, I think that's a major provocation. I'd let them spew their bile but at a safe distance and well away from any mourners. I'm surprised the likes of Phelps hasn't had serious harm done to them, TBH. It only takes them once to piss off someone they really shouldn't...

mds_02
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,077
Location: Los Angeles

21 Jul 2012, 1:45 am

Tequila wrote:

We take the idea of free speech very seriously. I'm sometimes shocked at how restricted speech is in places that are otherwise culturally pretty similar to us.

Though, honestly, if I weren't afraid that it would create a slippery slope leading toward limiting free speech in other situations, I wouldn't be opposed to passing laws saying basically "except at funerals, you a**holes."

_________________
If life's not beautiful without the pain,
well I'd just rather never ever even see beauty again.
Well as life gets longer, awful feels softer.
And it feels pretty soft to me.

Modest Mouse - The View

Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,691
Location: Houston, Texas

21 Jul 2012, 1:53 am

mds_02 wrote:

Tequila wrote:

If I weren't a Christian, I would suggest banning religion.

_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

21 Jul 2012, 1:54 am

mds_02 wrote:

We take the idea of free speech very seriously.

I agree with him being able to say basically what he wants, but not in a way that is harassing to another person.

Are poison-pen letter writers exercising their free speech? Or are they harassing people?

mds_02
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,077
Location: Los Angeles

21 Jul 2012, 2:05 am

Tequila wrote:

mds_02 wrote:

We take the idea of free speech very seriously.

Limiting where something can be said has almost as much impact as limiting what can be said.

As for harrassing individuals, the right to free speech is meant to protect the free exchange of ideas. Writing a harrassing letter to someone does not fall under that.

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

21 Jul 2012, 2:10 am

mds_02 wrote:

As for harrassing individuals, the right to free speech is meant to protect the free exchange of ideas.

So you don't think that turning up at funerals and screaming bile at people is harassment, even if they try to escape it but Phelps follows them and carries on, making him impossible to ignore?

What about following people around and trying to talk to them, even though you've asked them to leave you alone?

Is harassment recognised in U.S. law?

mds_02
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,077
Location: Los Angeles

21 Jul 2012, 2:36 am

Tequila wrote:

mds_02 wrote:

As for harrassing individuals, the right to free speech is meant to protect the free exchange of ideas.

Its protected, in that case, because that is the place where their speaking out will draw the most outside attention. Which is, after all, their reason for choosing it in the first place. And, of course, because they limit themselves to public spaces adjacent to the funeral.

Following people around, unless you can demonstrate a specific and legal purpose for doing so, is generally not allowed. Harrassment is recognized here, but I suspect it takes more for ones actions to count as harrassment here than it does there.

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

21 Jul 2012, 2:36 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqK4hKY2z2k&feature=related[/youtube]The first amendmant allows us to do the same back to them. The WBC isnt getting anywhere but making more people hate them and the police will not beable to protect them forever and in some states they are passing laws making it a felony to picket a funeral part of the Rest in Peace act.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isY1wsGcH9k&feature=related[/youtube]And for good humorous measure!! :lol:

_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList

mds_02
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,077
Location: Los Angeles

21 Jul 2012, 2:52 am

Don't think that because I recognize his legal right to do what he does, that I think that anything he does is morally acceptable in any way. Just because I do not believe the law should set a precedent limiting free speech odes not mean that I am opposed to individuals dealing with him as in any way they deem necessary.

Tequila wrote:

I'm surprised the likes of Phelps hasn't had serious harm done to them, TBH. It only takes them once to piss off someone they really shouldn't...

Read this post of mine from a little while back, the middle paragraph should illustrate my feelings towards his type. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4678519.html&highlight=#4678519

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

21 Jul 2012, 3:06 am

Sometimes I wish I could have diplomatic immunity for a day so I can legally beat the snot out of the WBC heck I would be a hero and be elected as president after that!! :lol:

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

21 Jul 2012, 3:12 am

AspieOtaku wrote:

Sometimes I wish I could have diplomatic immunity for a day so I can legally beat the snot out of the WBC heck I would be a hero and be elected as president after that!! :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiXNUaSjXRY[/youtube]

AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

21 Jul 2012, 4:04 am

Tequila wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

Sometimes I wish I could have diplomatic immunity for a day so I can legally beat the snot out of the WBC heck I would be a hero and be elected as president after that!! :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiXNUaSjXRY[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgZIYdFmZqc[/youtube]

iBlockhead
Velociraptor

Joined: 6 Jun 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 408

21 Jul 2012, 9:24 am

AngelRho wrote:

And that is relevant because...? The Bible is not favorable at all towards homosexual behavior, so why would you attempt to justify gay marriage from a Biblical worldview? It's absurd.

You tried to pass off that the most vocal support did not come from Christians. However, the more important support would come from actually voting for the proposition, which I believe you would. So that's dishonest.

Are you telling me Christians who support gay marriage and other, for lack of a better term, "pro-homoseuxal" views are not Christian?

AngelRho wrote:

What does adopting children/pushing their agenda have to do with this?

From the WBC Wikipedia page (here), they promote an anti=homosexual message by decrying the "homosexual agenda". My argument is how you can call them not Christian if other Christians believe essentially the same views as them. That is how it is relevant.

AngelRho wrote:

...The short answer is that it appears that people cannot change their sexual orientation. Therefore, having an aberrant sexual orientation itself doesn't send you to hell. It is, rather, the sins you commit as a result of giving into those temptations that carry with them God's wrath. You can't stop being homosexual. But being homosexual and struggling against unwanted same-sex attraction does not compel you to actively engage in homosexual behavior. I might be angry enough at someone that I'm tempted to do them harm. I have control over whether I give into that or not.

So instead of just saying yes, you give me some roundabout statement trying to avoid saying it directly?

Your long answer is more of the same, dodging directly saying yes.

AngelRho wrote:

The trouble is we live in a pluralistic Western society that doesn't see it as something harmful. I think if you take a Biblical position on homosexuality, you have to conclude that it is harmful. However, because we espouse freedom of religion, homosexuality cannot be criminalized on the basis of religion. That could all change if we all become unified on the matter of dedicating ourselves as a nation and culture to the worship of God. But as it stands we are not a theocracy and are forced to find a secular reason for eliminating homosexuality. This is a difficult argument to make, so whether I think it should be criminalized or not isn't going to make much, if any, difference.

I guess by that last sentence you mean you want it to be, but you cannot do anything about it. Let me try this again: Would you support the criminalization of homosexuality if it is possible to do so? Because that is what the WBC wants as well.

The rest I will get back to later, since I have limited time on my hands right now.

Ancalagon
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302

22 Jul 2012, 2:21 am

iBlockhead wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

And that is relevant because...? The Bible is not favorable at all towards homosexual behavior, so why would you attempt to justify gay marriage from a Biblical worldview? It's absurd.

I don't follow you here at all. Where's the dishonest bit? Are you trying to discuss prop 8 here? If so, what does that have to do with the WBC?

Quote:

Are you telling me Christians who support gay marriage and other, for lack of a better term, "pro-homoseuxal" views are not Christian?

I can't tell you what AngelRho would say, but my reply would be that having pro or anti homosexual views isn't what makes someone a Christian or not.

Quote:

AngelRho wrote:

What does adopting children/pushing their agenda have to do with this?

Having a belief in common with someone doesn't make you a member of their group. There are people who think the moon landings were faked. They believe the moon exists. I also believe the moon exists. That doesn't mean I deny that we've landed on the moon.

Quote:

So instead of just saying yes, you give me some roundabout statement trying to avoid saying it directly?

Your long answer is more of the same, dodging directly saying yes.

I didn't read the long answer because it was too long, but his short answer was a 'no'. Don't put words into people's mouths.

Quote:

I guess by that last sentence you mean you want it to be, but you cannot do anything about it.

You're putting words in his mouth again.

Quote:

Let me try this again: Would you support the criminalization of homosexuality if it is possible to do so? Because that is what the WBC wants as well.

This is missing the point. So what if someone agrees on some point with the WBC? The problem with the WBC is not what their beliefs are but how they practice them. If there were a group of people who acted like the WBC but believed the opposite, they would be just as bad.

_________________
"A dead thing can go with the stream, but only a living thing can go against it." --G. K. Chesterton

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

22 Jul 2012, 2:24 am

actions are often based on belief and its quite hard to seperate some specific forms of them.

_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

Page 4 of 13 [ 197 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 13 Next

Jump to:

The Westboro Baptist Church and other Bible Thumpers Post Reply New Topic

The Westboro Baptist Church and other Bible Thumpers