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Is flying the flag posted in this thread a geture of treason towars the USofAholes?
Oh Hells yeah! 17%  17%  [ 3 ]
Oh Hells naw! 83%  83%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 18

Warsie
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01 Oct 2012, 3:18 am

Underscore wrote:
Would the US survive a domestic independant region? Isn't then the concept of the USA critically weakened and unstable? If so I would understand that waving that flag would be considered treason.

And I don't think it looked so good, tbh :P


Time to dissolve the American Empire now, in a peaceful manner before people start butchering each other to achieve their national aims and ethnic self-determination.

Master_Pedant wrote:
I don't get why American politics is so racialized. I mean, I've never heard the phrase "white leftists" used to describe factions within the NDP yet "white liberals" are routinely used as a category in American politics (yet "black liberals" are seldom mentioned).


Black nationalists used to insult "white liberals" as they tended to be ANNOYINGLY two-faced. Malcolm X wrote about that. Also, now white nationalists claims blacks arent truely liberal and would exterminate all the "white liberalS" or something.

Vigilans wrote:
Hypothetical: America balkanizes into at least 3 or 4 new nations. Who gets all the nukes? Who gets all the military hardware? Who steps in to be the next in line for "World Police"? China? I think I prefer the US...


There would be no 'world police' anymore, at least not a single country for a long time. Anyway, China wold not want 'world police' - its' history has been AMAZINGLY insular after all...

Because of White America's lack of decent secession plans (the Soviet constitution pretty much had provisions from the beginning for secession and dissolution) - and the crappy border drawn by white american politicians - we will have a bunch of questionable zones which will have to be cut off/split. Southern Illinois and Indiana are example. The black-majority regions of the US south are another region, as two ethnic groups who have issues with each other cannot share a state and won't like putting up with each other. Ideally an independent ethnically-majority black nation-state can be built up, and from then on we can ressurect some semblance of African cultures of the Igbo, Yoruba, etc from Nigeria and undergo an process of 'De-Westernization*' (similar to de-sinicization policies of Vietnam and Korea).

Re: nuclear weapons and military, I'm assuming there will be a military decline before everything collapses -so it'll be 'anything goes'. It will be funny (read: interesting and amazingly risky) for ethnic factions to gain nukes if they're fighting over the "Carcass of america". read this book for more: http://www.resist.com/CWII.pdf


Also, more information on the secessionist black ethno-state encompassing all majority black regions of the US south
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_New_Afrika

more infos; communist groups came up with the idea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Hayw ... elt_nation

click the external links there are more external info. be warned; it approaches the question from a communist argument/clas based argument.

*the definition of 'the west' is amazingly convoluted, but in this context - assuming 'western' = 'white europeans and americans, north and south'


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01 Oct 2012, 10:43 am

The U.S. didn't want to be the global policeman at one time, either. But we took on that role by necessity. I would imagine it could the same for a future China.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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01 Oct 2012, 12:01 pm

Warsie wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
You gave Quebec too much territory, if it ever seceded it would look more like this:

....

Quebec secession looks like a lost cause though at this point anyway



read that alternate-history forum thread I see =P


No.. I live in Quebec


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01 Oct 2012, 8:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
The U.S. didn't want to be the global policeman at one time, either. But we took on that role by necessity. I would imagine it could the same for a future China.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The US was an imperialist power in the western hemisphere from the Monroe Doctrine, and the Manifest Destiny thing helped to embolden that. Two continents is an awfully large part of the Earth. And even beyond that there were significant interventionist factions calling for the US to enter both World Wars.

The US was not forced to become the global policeman. The US could have easily returned to isolationism (or at least not any Truman Doctrine BS) after WWII ended, given the mentalities of the population and many politicians.

Vigilans wrote:
No.. I live in Quebec


The picture you provided was posted on the alternate-history forums. Granted the person who made it could be Quebecoic of English Canadian.


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02 Oct 2012, 3:09 am

I'm actually good friends with the person who designed that flag, his name is Alexander Baretich. I'm a huge advocate of the movement, I took a trip all the way up to Vancouver for a Cascadian event at the Peace Arch 3 months ago.

I agree the Pacific Northwest doesn't share typical American values. I think this has largely to do with the fact we are physically isolated from the rest of the country and are much less religious. We also could have easily become either our own country or a part of Canada.

I feel a lot of kinship with Canadians, moreso than I do with Americans from the Rocky Mountains, Midwest, South and Northeast. I really am intent on having a Canadian girlfriend someday because I think I'd relate better to a Canadian woman than to American women who seem to feel into three types: country gals, high-maintenance or hipster, Canadian girls just idk seem more girly and also more chill.

Buffalo, New York feels very foreign to me but I actually feel quite at home in Ontario, because it feels just like an eastern version of British Columbia which feels like a Canadian version of Oregon and Washington. We have a pretty common history with Canada, the Hudson's Bay Company was very active in this region, we shared a trade language with western Canada (Chinook Jargon), a lot of native/First Nations tribes live on both sides of the border, the way we talk is somewhat similar. Canadians are stereotyped to sound like the characters in Fargo but the truth is your average kid in Toronto or Vancouver sounds just like a Portlander or Seattleite except the occasional "melk", "eh" or "aboat". If the Canadian government wasn't becoming a satellite of America I wouldn't mind Oregon and Washington just joining Canada rather than the Cascadian movement.

The Pacific Northwest is also the only part of the US that's truly liberal aside from maybe Vermont. California's urban white population is liberal yes but its rural and minority populations make the state quite conservative. The Pacific Northwest even has some quite rural 'blue' counties. The Upper Midwest votes blue but they're still overwhelmingly traditional, they're just compassionate, and the Northeast votes blue but they're still deep-rooted, cynical and militant. Here in Oregon and Washington even the conservatives tend to care about the environment to some degree and many of them couldn't give a crap about the Bible. Oregon and Washington are probably as left-wing as your typical Western European country and maybe even more progressive, but the fact they're part of the United States kind of holds them down.



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02 Oct 2012, 11:56 am

Warsie wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The U.S. didn't want to be the global policeman at one time, either. But we took on that role by necessity. I would imagine it could the same for a future China.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The US was an imperialist power in the western hemisphere from the Monroe Doctrine, and the Manifest Destiny thing helped to embolden that. Two continents is an awfully large part of the Earth. And even beyond that there were significant interventionist factions calling for the US to enter both World Wars.

The US was not forced to become the global policeman. The US could have easily returned to isolationism (or at least not any Truman Doctrine BS) after WWII ended, given the mentalities of the population and many politicians.

Vigilans wrote:
No.. I live in Quebec


The picture you provided was posted on the alternate-history forums. Granted the person who made it could be Quebecoic of English Canadian.


You are aware that there is more than one place that picture could have come from. The first time I saw it or one like it was 1994


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02 Oct 2012, 12:17 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
I'm actually good friends with the person who designed that flag, his name is Alexander Baretich. I'm a huge advocate of the movement, I took a trip all the way up to Vancouver for a Cascadian event at the Peace Arch 3 months ago.

I agree the Pacific Northwest doesn't share typical American values. I think this has largely to do with the fact we are physically isolated from the rest of the country and are much less religious. We also could have easily become either our own country or a part of Canada.

I feel a lot of kinship with Canadians, moreso than I do with Americans from the Rocky Mountains, Midwest, South and Northeast. I really am intent on having a Canadian girlfriend someday because I think I'd relate better to a Canadian woman than to American women who seem to feel into three types: country gals, high-maintenance or hipster, Canadian girls just idk seem more girly and also more chill.

Buffalo, New York feels very foreign to me but I actually feel quite at home in Ontario, because it feels just like an eastern version of British Columbia which feels like a Canadian version of Oregon and Washington. We have a pretty common history with Canada, the Hudson's Bay Company was very active in this region, we shared a trade language with western Canada (Chinook Jargon), a lot of native/First Nations tribes live on both sides of the border, the way we talk is somewhat similar. Canadians are stereotyped to sound like the characters in Fargo but the truth is your average kid in Toronto or Vancouver sounds just like a Portlander or Seattleite except the occasional "melk", "eh" or "aboat". If the Canadian government wasn't becoming a satellite of America I wouldn't mind Oregon and Washington just joining Canada rather than the Cascadian movement.

The Pacific Northwest is also the only part of the US that's truly liberal aside from maybe Vermont. California's urban white population is liberal yes but its rural and minority populations make the state quite conservative. The Pacific Northwest even has some quite rural 'blue' counties. The Upper Midwest votes blue but they're still overwhelmingly traditional, they're just compassionate, and the Northeast votes blue but they're still deep-rooted, cynical and militant. Here in Oregon and Washington even the conservatives tend to care about the environment to some degree and many of them couldn't give a crap about the Bible. Oregon and Washington are probably as left-wing as your typical Western European country and maybe even more progressive, but the fact they're part of the United States kind of holds them down.

I really love the Pacific Northwest mainly for it's natural beauty. I love the deep lush forests and snow-capped mountains. Of course I love hiking and the Midwest is incredibly boring terrain-wise compared to the PNW. However, living there I felt like the culture was hard if you're an introverted person as everyone is fairly laid-back and polite but at the same time nobody really tries to reach out to you. There also seems to be a slightly higher frequency of crabby road-ragers than there is in Midwest or East Coast cities. Of course I lived pretty much right in the middle of Seattle. I think I'd probably do a little better more out towards the country, like Issaquah or North Bend. Those places seem really nice.



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02 Oct 2012, 3:12 pm

My family went hiking in Hawai'i once on a trail that was described as 'through rain forest,' and it took us about 3 miles before we realized that we were IN the 'rain forest,' because the trees (actually tree-ferns) were only about 15 feet high. We're used to trees literally hundreds of feet high out here, and anything under 20 feet is a 'shrub.'



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02 Oct 2012, 3:52 pm

LKL wrote:
My family went hiking in Hawai'i once on a trail that was described as 'through rain forest,' and it took us about 3 miles before we realized that we were IN the 'rain forest,' because the trees (actually tree-ferns) were only about 15 feet high. We're used to trees literally hundreds of feet high out here, and anything under 20 feet is a 'shrub.'

That probably wasn't a true tropical rainforest but what's termed "cloud forest". It occurs in places that are too high above sea level, too windy, or too damp for larger trees to grow. That or it was deforested at some point and isn't old-growth.

This is a true tropical rainforest tree...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13669377@N02/6693215677/in/set-72157628723547217

Real old-growth rainforest has trees that are big around the base but are generally "only" 100-150 feet tall as opposed to 150-200 ft tall douglas fir forests you get in the PNW. I read that the temperate rainforests on the Olympic Peninsula of WA have more plant biomass per unit area than anywhere else on earth, including tropical rainforests.



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02 Oct 2012, 5:48 pm

Being a guy from east of the Cascades, I think I can honestly say, that the so called "cultural divide" between the east and the west of Washington is probably has more to do with regional rivalry than anything else - at least in regard to the greater Spokane area. I have relatives on the west side of the state who have lived there their entire lives, and when I would visit them with my parents when I was younger, I never perceived any cultural differences. If anything, most of them were no more or no less liberal than my parents and me. I do concede the small towns and rural areas in eastern Washington are pretty conservative - but I would imagine that could be said of such communities on the west side of the state.
So in other words, Spokane and the surrounding small cites (like my own Spokane Valley) and suburbs would make happy additions to Cascadia. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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02 Oct 2012, 7:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Being a guy from east of the Cascades, I think I can honestly say, that the so called "cultural divide" between the east and the west of Washington is probably has more to do with regional rivalry than anything else - at least in regard to the greater Spokane area. I have relatives on the west side of the state who have lived there their entire lives, and when I would visit them with my parents when I was younger, I never perceived any cultural differences. If anything, most of them were no more or no less liberal than my parents and me. I do concede the small towns and rural areas in eastern Washington are pretty conservative - but I would imagine that could be said of such communities on the west side of the state.
So in other words, Spokane and the surrounding small cites (like my own Spokane Valley) and suburbs would make happy additions to Cascadia. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yes, I don't really see a huge divide between both sides of the Cascades. I think Oregon and Washington in their entiretys are really one community, and the people in British Columbia, Idaho, Missoula, Alaska and Northern California are essentially our kin as well. Spokane is certainly different from Tacoma but it still has that 'Washington-ness' if you know what I mean!

I think somewhere like Roseburg is just as 'redneck' as Davenport, WA but neither of those places are anything like Mississippi.



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02 Oct 2012, 10:59 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Canadians are stereotyped to sound like the characters in Fargo but the truth is your average kid in Toronto or Vancouver sounds just like a Portlander or Seattleite except the occasional "melk", "eh" or "aboat".


I didnt even notice those words being said when I was with some Canadians who were at a con, completely neutral (from Chicago accent spoken by local/midwest white americans) :lol:

Vigilans wrote:
You are aware that there is more than one place that picture could have come from. The first time I saw it or one like it was 1994


No I was not aware. I believe the map-makers on that forum made it (there is a map-making section on the site)


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02 Oct 2012, 11:22 pm

Warsie wrote:

I didnt even notice those words being said when I was with some Canadians who were at a con, completely neutral (from Chicago accent spoken by local/midwest white americans) :lol:
)


You have to listen really closely. I can still tell a Canadian accent, it's more just the clipped sound of the language I suppose that is the main difference. They don't really drawl out their vowels like Americans do, I think a southern accent is sort of an extremely American sounding accent if that makes any sense and a Canadian accent is the opposite of that.



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02 Oct 2012, 11:27 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Being a guy from east of the Cascades, I think I can honestly say, that the so called "cultural divide" between the east and the west of Washington is probably has more to do with regional rivalry than anything else - at least in regard to the greater Spokane area. I have relatives on the west side of the state who have lived there their entire lives, and when I would visit them with my parents when I was younger, I never perceived any cultural differences. If anything, most of them were no more or no less liberal than my parents and me. I do concede the small towns and rural areas in eastern Washington are pretty conservative - but I would imagine that could be said of such communities on the west side of the state.
So in other words, Spokane and the surrounding small cites (like my own Spokane Valley) and suburbs would make happy additions to Cascadia. 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yes, I don't really see a huge divide between both sides of the Cascades. I think Oregon and Washington in their entiretys are really one community, and the people in British Columbia, Idaho, Missoula, Alaska and Northern California are essentially our kin as well. Spokane is certainly different from Tacoma but it still has that 'Washington-ness' if you know what I mean!

I think somewhere like Roseburg is just as 'redneck' as Davenport, WA but neither of those places are anything like Mississippi.


Oh, absolutely nothing like Mississippi!
I recall from years ago when someone serving in the army had written to the letter page in the paper about just this exact issue about liberal/conservative attitudes between the east and west sides of the state. He had stated that local "conservatism" hardly looks like the real thing that he had experienced in Alabama.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Oct 2012, 9:44 am

donnie_darko wrote:
Warsie wrote:

I didnt even notice those words being said when I was with some Canadians who were at a con, completely neutral (from Chicago accent spoken by local/midwest white americans) :lol:
)


You have to listen really closely. I can still tell a Canadian accent, it's more just the clipped sound of the language I suppose that is the main difference. They don't really drawl out their vowels like Americans do, I think a southern accent is sort of an extremely American sounding accent if that makes any sense and a Canadian accent is the opposite of that.


In Washington some people can somehow tell I'm from the southern Great Lakes region and no, I don't say "pop", I say "soda". Apparently people from anywhere near Chicago or Detroit have their own accent but it just sounds neutral to me.



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03 Oct 2012, 10:16 am

If your not from the South all our accents probably sound alike,I can tell the difference from the slow drawl of the Delta to the twang of Appalachia and the spicy Cajun accent.I like to hear people's accents,all of them sound nice to me.I was on the phone with a salesman who had the most wonderful Spanish accent,he may have looked like a troll in real life but he sounded like he was as handsome as a god.I wish I had a sexy accent like the gorgeous Italian lady in the Arbath(Spelled wrong I'm sure) car commercial,wish I looked like her too. :wink: