Palestinian girl stands up to IDF thugs

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Please do yourself a favour and stop arguing with me on Islamic scripture and its practical implications. At this point, you should be aware that I know a hell of a lot more about Islam than you do and that I can provide a torrent of examples that demonstrate that Islamic scripture is a lot more than religious rhetoric, and a desire at best.

If you want me to waste time *actually* providing examples, then so be it.

I recommend a more economic approach, though. Google "sharia".



It doesn't have the means because Israel is armed to the teeth and capable of eradicating the military of its anti-Semitic neighbours.

I apologize. Anti-Zionist Marxist beliefs. Feel better now?



Yeah, but that isn't the policy of Israel anyway, so who cares?

The old testament is just as culpible of advocating violence as the quaran, such as its advocation of throwing gays into a 'lake of fire'

Read for yourself more tidbits
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Not all muslims practice the quaran literally word for word anymore than all christians take the bible word for word. The tendency to focus on the violent actions of a minority of extremists is part of a bigoted agenda to promote social exclusion of muslims.


If we're talking about violence though how can anyone take Israel seriously when Israeli ministers and the son of Ariel Sharon talk of 'erasing Gaza' or enacting a second 'nagasaki and hiroshima' on gaza. Why is it when Amoudinejhad talks of wiping out Israel when Israel talks about doing the same thing against gaza the right wing and the pro Israeli lobby suddenly go quiet?

Precisely so how the does hamas have a realistic plan of 'wiping out the jews' when they cant even defend their own territory.


I do think Israel has a realistic plan of wiping out the Palestinians, which is really the point that the international community ought to focus on.

Sharia is the *reality* of many Islamic countries in the World, including many of Israel's neighbour countries. The predictable *Old testament is bad too* claim fails to recognize that the Old testament is not Law in *any* country on the planet Earth.

You could have arrived at this conclusion on your own by spending five minutes on Google.



Because if Israel actually wanted to unleash a "nagasaki and hiroshima" on Gaza, then Gaza would be a radioactive crater by now.



I never said it was realistic. The best thing about Islam is its incompetence.



Do I need to post the video of the IDF regiment commander saving a Palestinian girl again?

We are not talking about instances of states though, we are talking about religions collectively.

Anyway why do you say no country is under old testament rule? What about Paedophile city?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_see


Its only been recently theyve talked about doing it.

the only 2 factors stopping them-

Jewish settlers and a large part of East Egypt would get covered in fallout

They would alienate themselves from America and the international community and the USA would stop sending them that $70 billion tugboat that they get every year in aid. Israel isnt stupid it knows what side its bread is buttered on.


At this point you're not even making any sort of sensible argument.

I dont know what the actions of one soldier has to do with the collective ambitions of the israeli state.

There is honour even among scoundrels.

Last time I checked, the Catholic Church prefers the new testament.

Funny that you should mention paedophilia, though, as it is explicitly endorsed by Islamic scripture.



What $70 Billion?



*Drum roll*... Well, since you weren't making any sort of sensible argument from the start, I am still way ahead.



The so-called "collective ambitions of the Israeli state" are figments of your imagination. The Palestinian girl saved by an IDF soldier is a real person.

Well, yes, everything else being equal, a single-state solution would be ideal, but realistically it will never work.

a) One of the problems with a single state solution is that it will never demographically work for Israeli Jews. The entire reason for Israel's existence in the eyes of the Israeli Jews is for there to be a Jewish state. If you integrated all of Gaza and all of the West Bank into Israel-proper, then Israel would immediately or within a few decades (given the different birthrates of the Jewish and Palestinian populations) cease to be a predominantly Jewish country. It would basically mean, at best, the non-violent destruction of Israel in their eyes.

b) Plus, countries with two very large yet separate national/cultural identities have historically had a difficult time managing this - look at Canada for example - there's no pending violent independence movement there, but there's constant clashes between French and English speaking cultures. Other countries created artificially have gone further - civil wars - such as Yugoslavia. And its not like there isn't hundreds or thousands of years of bad blood between the two sides already.

A one state solution is a recipe for disaster.

I think the 2nd best solution would be two states, but physically removed from each other - i.e. one side or the other is relocated somewhere else in the region or out of the region entirely. This could conceivably result in the Palestinians having a country larger than they would in the current location, but this is a non-starter because both sides have too much invested emotionally and religiously in the land to just leave.

So the choice comes down to two-state solution or the status quo? And for the Palestinians, the question ought to be if they would be better off as the "Mexico" to Israel's "U.S.", or better off in the current situation living under occupation?

That girl has bigger balls than the manchildren here calling for violence towards her

What are either of these claims based on?




The USA gives the equivalent of $10 000 a year to israel per jewish citizen.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyVy5XHjuGI[/youtube]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html

As for the rest of your post, If you're going to be deliberately obstinate and pernicious, I will not entertain you with a reply.

Last time I checked, the Catholic Church prefers the new testament.

You'll have to excuse me that I don't waste effort on describing that Christianity is based on ... Christianity.

When it comes to Islam, I would actually cite primary sources if you had more intellectual honesty, but since you do not, I can simply refer to the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Age_at_marriage



The estimated total US aid to Israel in 2013 is 3.115 Billion US dollars. That's at least 22 times less than your estimate.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf



Notwithstanding the fact that I have been kicking your ass repeatedly on WP when discussing Israel-Palestine, you might want to look up this word:

Introspection

Claiming victory in an argument makes a person look weak and dishonorable.

If you read through the back and forth between the two, GGPViper pretty much answers and challenges every single one of Thomas81's arguments, while Thomas81 often cherry picks what to respond to (which is fine, I wont judge, I know there's a lot to talk about) but none the less, every attempt to control the argument is overtaken by GGPViper. Also, Thomas81 said on this last post "As for the rest of your post, If you're going to be deliberately obstinate and pernicious, I will not entertain you with a reply." I've seen this a million times, it's a desperate attempt to control the argument, "I'm not gonna answer your challenges because you're being mean." It's a cop out, and always indicates that you're up against a wall.......


Personally, I agree with GGPViper, but even if I didn't, GGPViper presented challenges that I thought Thomas81 didn't meet. Sharia law vs the old testament where no country holds Jewish law as law while every Muslim country has some form of Sharia law, and the doctrine of so so many Muslims is to have Sharia law uber alles. Check out "financial Jihad". Also the 10 thousand a year for each Israeli citizen followed by a propaganda video, and why not mention how much aid we give to the palestinians.

Oh yeah, and excellent point GGPViper made that Thomas81 didn't respond to was about Thomas81's "Israel PROJECT" comment, Israel is a country, plain and simple, voted on, ratified, rubber stamped, fully legal etc etc....calling it a project indicates that Thomas81 sees Israel as a"lower" than any other country.

Also, I can't imagine where Thomas81 got the idea that Israel wants to turn Gaza into a crater, but they're being held back.....that's pure fiction.

Also, suggesting a "collective ambitions of the Israeli State" it just sounds paranoid...... there are huge divides in government over every issue under the sun. Ask three Jews a question and get 5 opinions.....I can't see any collective ambition other than peace and protection of Israel herself, which includes it's people and traditions including gays, bisexuals, guys who like shoes, women drivers and teachers, non Jews, Jews, free press, rap music, communists, etc etc....


So yeah, he's been kicking your ass.

First of all, my comment still stands.

Secondly, its so obvious that you're partial towards Viper, I mean c'mon. Just sit, relax, and watch an ensuing debate; add your points when need be. I could easily write a post similar to yours explaining why Thomas is clearly winning. For example, you don't even take into account the large number of anti-zionist Israeli's that, yes, reside in Israel. Yep, you heard that right.
But I won't do that, this is between them two. So please, enough of this, this ain't the first time you've pulled something out of your ass.

"The large number"? Any figures for this?

There are quite a few anti-Zionist academics, journalists, writers and so on living in Israel, but the strongest anti-Israel Jews tend to be elements of the tiny Neturei Karta mob.

I don't agree with you. I dont know you, so when you say I pull things out of my ass before like, that's not nice. I have to teach my kid to use his words, but in an intellectual sense. I tell him to save your emotion for the appropriate time. Creates balance......

So then I read the thread, and thought I'd contribute...honestly, I saw really good points that I thought I'd summarize in one post, things that could be further talked about.

show me where I threatened anyone
why do you personally attack me?
were my initial comments directed at you?