Prayer out of schools?

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Just gonna say I agree with both of you on this. A tough choice is still a choice. If that means choosing between your values and the job you want, your problem. Not really any different than for nonreligious people, in my opinion.

To be fair, with the possible exception of condoms, all those items are easily available elsewhere and are luxuries rather than necessities. I agree that it is silly to take a job working behind a bar if you don't want to handle alcohol, but the customer does have the alternative of going to a bar without such ludicrously unhelpful staff.

A pub like that would be out of business in very short order if the employers were insane (or frightened) enough to keep them on. A fundamentalist American Mormon wouldn't be very popular in a coffee shop, for instance, if they started giving out about caffeine.

I was at a supermarket checkout in the UK a few years ago and the cashier suddenly stopped scanning the items and put the flashing light on to call for a supervisor... turns out she was a devout Muslim and would not sell alcohol personally, so the supervisor had to come and scan the bottle of wine for her. In the meantime I'm stood there in disbelief along with the lengthening queue.

£50 says that they simply would not tolerate this from a white Christian (or, at the very least, they'd get a lot of stick for it). Islam with its endless whining and grievance-mongering, implicit threats of violence and intimidation and intolerance is allowed to have its way again.

Put it this way: almost all the examples I can think of involve Muslims (much like Muslims demanding prayer rooms where they don't belong, or Muslims demanding the right to ignore health and safety rules, or Muslims demanding the right not to remove headgear, or Muslim taxi drivers discriminating against disabled people by refusing to let dogs in their taxis). Yes, the caveat about this not applying to all Muslims still very much applies (speaking from personal experience). Just the arseholish ones who want to push their religion in everyone else's face. I would expect observant Jews not to work in a non-kosher butchers, and fundamentalist Christians not to work in an environment where they have to provide things - like condoms or sex toys - that go against their beliefs. I would also suggest that Hindus and Sikhs may wear their headgear too (the Sikhs have some rather impressive beards on them). But I wouldn't expect any of the excuses trotted out in their favour that are readily given when the target is a Muslim.

If your beliefs stop you doing your job (or you have to get other people to do those parts of your job for you), you're in the wrong job.

Hear! Hear!

I wasn't having a go at you. I was just expressing exasperation at the situation here.

Yup. Religion, even in the very mild version I had as a child in primary school, bored the absolute piss out of me. I never believed in it and was bored by it, even as a child. I remember asking a Catholic priest about belief in God, and he just couldn't answer, poor chap.

I didn't think you were. I was just clarifying that I have no clue what the situations are anywhere but here. Not necessarily for you, but for anyone reading.

While I agree with your stance on religion, however, I have to ask you to clarify the below.



What about a black christian or an asian one? You are aware that being a muslim (or of any other religion) does not indicate your skin colour.

If you believe that a "white christain" would not be tolerated in their beliefs, you have little understanding of the history of the Britain you live in. I would suggest you look up the temperance movement for one, and how these white christians changed british society completely. In your own county the temperance movement squirmed it's way into every facet of life even giving the old Manchester City's ground it name, Maine Road.

British (white) religion has played a hugh role in law making within the UK, pubs opening times & sunday trading to name some basic ones. But this is history right? OK what about the 26 unelected bishops of the church of england currently sitting in the House of Lords?

Not tolerate this from white christians? No, they may not be in you local corner shop refusing to serve alcohol (oh no, theres a queue now), instead they're in our parliment having a major impact on law making and our rights.

I oppose all religion regarless what colour it comes in, you on the other hand seem to have an issue with the colour of the religion not necessarily the religion it's self?

If I have misrepresented the meaning of your above comment please feel free to correct me.

QFT.

Prayer out of schools. Science and Math in.

ruveyn

I THINK I know why schools use to have prayer, apparently they believe its associated with better morals, and they say thats why the country is so screwed up, and thats why kids are sooo disrepectful.

BS, the majority of cases are that parenting has to do with kids being disrespecful.

However SOME schools have forbidden Religious people/students from mentioning God, just because some other student can take offense to that(even if the person taking offense KNEW the other person wasnt meant to be offensive), but yet saying GOD******, and every other cuss word is allowed in those schools, same with smoking,drinking, not going to class, etc....?

God has no place in politics. As long as atheists and agnostics are taxed and pay their taxes, God should not even be mentioned in public matters or affairs. And that includes having clergy say opening prayers in the courts of legislative halls. Government should be 100 percent secular. Religion is strictly for the home, churches and purely private venues.

And that dreadful phrase should be struck from our coinage and the Pledge of Allegiance. Ironically the Pledge was composed by a socialist minister name Bellamy, who was a proto-fascist and wanted to impose a loyalty oath on Southerners after the Civil War.

ruveyn

This is quite correct.

We don't get many black Christians up here - there used to be quite a considerable population of Caribbeans here in the late 1960s, but most of them have since buggered off. Most of them live in Birmingham or London now. Which is why I said "white Christian", as there simply aren't that many other types here. Otherwise, though, you're right - you'd be spot on. I suspect that the implicit threat of violence probably is a factor in these situations as well.

And gospel singing is so annoying! I definitely support their right to demonstrate, but it doesn't half give me a headache at times.

If you believe that a "white christain" would not be tolerated in their beliefs, you have little understanding of the history of the Britain you live in.



Yep, and they still make me vomit. And we still haven't fully emerged from their wicked, moping grasp.

What do you mean "changed"? The temperance mob are still here, the miserable, lying, good-for-nothing, tax-sucking bastards, and they're still alive and well. They've just gone secular. See Alcohol Concern, the Portman Group, and other loudmouth government wallahs in the Department for Health. I wish a very great plague on the likes of Don Shenker, Sir Liam Donaldson, Vivian Nathanson, Deborah Arnott, Eric Appleby and all the other hand-wringing, greedy, venal, disgusting, puritanical, miserable, life-sucking miserablists.

Your point is well-made, though. And I hate the temperance mob with a passion.



The pub opening times, if you remember rightly, had nothing to do with religion. It had to do with World War I.

And as for the bishops in the Church of England - you'll have no argument from me. They have no place in a mostly-secular democracy. Religion (and especially not a particular religion) should have no special privileged role in politics. None.

You are correct that the 1915 licencing act reduced opening hours due to rationing in WWI but if you look to the sunday closing act of 1881 you will see that this was due to pressure from the temperance movement albeit in Wales at first but English counties succumbed to the pressure too. Previous acts also had major religious pressure for restrictions and continue to oppose our progress with their bigoted views.

You are correct that Muslin fundamentalists do threaten the world with violence were the now moderate christians do not, but this is only a fairly recent change and one that is still very fragile in Northern Ireland going by recent events. Looking to Africa were christianity has exacerbated the spread of HIV/AIDS and the killing of children thought to be witches.

So I say again that these fluffy christians have changed our lanscape with violence in the past and they were no less of a threat than fundamentalist Muslins are today.

I would suggest that we should not be concerned by skin colour but rather by the faith of those who wish to inflict their beleifs on to us.