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puddingmouse
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11 Dec 2012, 9:46 pm

Moog wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
It's not so much karma itself, its the fact that it shoves people into discrete castes - that's it's that organised and final. Obviously, caste goes away when you stop believing in it because people in other societies move between social classes all the time. The belief that they have an imperative to be poor isn't there.


The doctrine of karma doesn't disallow social mobility.

Social mobility is on a descending trend here, and I don't know that we could realistically blame it on religion.


The doctrine of karma doesn't disallow it - it's extension in the form of Hindu caste system does.

I didn't say that all social stratification was caused by religion, just that, in this particular case (the caste system), it contributes to it.



puddingmouse
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11 Dec 2012, 9:47 pm

Moog wrote:
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Moog wrote:
Hmm, interesting way to explain why there are theists and atheists.


Atheism is an intellectual position, not a state of feeling 'separate' from a higher power. I've experienced plenty of instances of 'spiritual' elation or insight, or whatever. I still don't believe in God.


I thought you liked Sikhism. My mistake.


I do. I just don't believe in God.



puddingmouse
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11 Dec 2012, 10:29 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
VIDEODROME wrote:
When I read things like the 8 fold path or the 4 noble truths it can sound appealing and thoughtful.

But people have also linked Buddhist teachings to the Japanese Kamikaze pilots.

Also, supposedly Buddhism attempted to shrug off the Hindu style caste system but I'm not sure that entirely succeeded. If someone is born diseased or deformed they may be scorned saying they obviously are paying for bad Karma from a previous life.

This is to bad because I've read interested books from the Dalai Llama, but I've also listened to Christopher Hitchens and even Penn Jillette critizise the Dalai Llama and this way of life. Even accusing old Tibet of allowing a kind of Serfdom.

So as far as Eastern "Religion" is concerned, I'm now exploring Taoism.


I can't help but think there's a fair bit of ghostwriting that goes in the Dalai Lama's books. He was once told to remove anti-gay passages, for instance, so as to not offend western readers.

http://atheism.about.com/b/2008/03/31/d ... cuddly.htm


That's a great article, thanks for sharing it - it sums up what I think about him.

People will probably interpret this as supporting the Chinese occupation, but I do not. The article has the problem of almost excusing the Chinese, though.



Tensu
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11 Dec 2012, 11:19 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
In a similar way, religions like Christianity brush over suffering in this world because there's an afterlife. That sort of thing rubs me up the wrong way.


What exactly do you mean by "brush over suffering?"



puddingmouse
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12 Dec 2012, 3:18 am

Tensu wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
In a similar way, religions like Christianity brush over suffering in this world because there's an afterlife. That sort of thing rubs me up the wrong way.


What exactly do you mean by "brush over suffering?"


They don't do it so much now, but in the Middle Ages, part of the justification for feudalism was the idea that the righteous poor would be rewarded in an afterlife. Those in power encouraged the poor to seek 'treasure in heaven' as opposed to on earth. It was based on a twisting of the gospel to suit those in power.

How it exists today is related to things that the Catholic church prohibit - like contraception and abortion. Have more kids than you can afford to feed? Never mind, God will reward you when you die. Want to sexually express your love for someone of your own gender but we say you can't? Never mind, God loves you more than anyone else can already and there is no gender in heaven.



MCalavera
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12 Dec 2012, 5:56 am

There is no sex in heaven either.



TallyMan
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12 Dec 2012, 6:06 am

MCalavera wrote:
There is no sex in heaven either.


How can they call it heaven then? :P I'd want more entertaining things to do than sit on a cloud playing a harp all day.


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MCalavera
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12 Dec 2012, 6:17 am

You think sex is more entertaining than sitting around all day long doing nothing but sing hymns and praises for God for eternity?

God must be in shock now.