The "Why do you need?" fallacy. (Re: gun control)

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Evinceo
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10 Jan 2013, 7:26 pm

PM wrote:

Raptor wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

Explain to me why it's not irrational that you can justify assault wheapons by the constitution and cannot justify nuclear wheapons by the constitution. I'm all ears and know when to recognise I've lost an argument.

What is an "assault weapon"?

Political term for anything that looks scary to the anti-gun lobby.

An assault rifle is a rough translation of Sturmgewehr. It's used to denote this gun:

And similar weapons. The degree of similarity is usually the fuzzy area that leads to debate. I'm assuming "weapon" is used in place of rifle ether because of it's prominence in gun jargon.

PM
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10 Jan 2013, 7:44 pm

ModusPonens wrote:

PM wrote:

Raptor wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

What is an "assault weapon"?

Political term for anything that looks scary to the anti-gun lobby.

Had you read my posts here and you would know I'm not even american, so how can I be a lobbyist?

And I don't know the technical terms because of the same reason. I'm not an english native speaker.

And finaly, I'm not the one who is scared enough to need a gun to feel safe.

You are not a lobbyist, you agree with the lobby that wants to ban guns.

Having a gun=/= fear.

Finally, the military definition of an Assault Rifle is any SELECTIVE FIRE rifle that fires an intermediate cartridge.

The AR15 you can buy in a gun store is NOT an assault rifle, but the gun control lobby wants you to think it is because it looks scary to them.

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ModusPonens
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10 Jan 2013, 10:07 pm

PM wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

PM wrote:

Raptor wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

What is an "assault weapon"?

Political term for anything that looks scary to the anti-gun lobby.

True.

False.

No need for caps.

I think for myself.

NAKnight
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10 Jan 2013, 11:50 pm

I will interject my 0.02.

The gun control lobby has a question they must ponder upon.

What is the legal definition of a gun ?
If you cannot legally define a gun how can you control/regulate it?

A assault rifle can be anything.
My paintball gun can be an assault rifle.
It projects multiple rounds downrange, much like a any other gun.

Best Regards,

Jake

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AspieOtaku
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11 Jan 2013, 2:17 am

Banning guns wont stop a killer from killing people sure they might not be smart enough to make pipe bombs but if they are motivated enough they will aquire guns illegally through the black market also furthermore it will allow crooked cops more reason to abuse their power. Also just a few days ago a man set his gf on fire so even without guns people with murderous intent do find ways.If you don't like guns you don't have to buy them if you are so afraid of them, however if a bunch of thugs broke in your house with illegally obtained guns you would wish you had a gun otherwise you are at their mercy you could call the cops but they might kill you before the cops arrive or disconnect the phone so you cant call the cops and even if you cooperate with the thugs there is no guarantee they will spare your life.This is reality!

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Last edited by AspieOtaku on 11 Jan 2013, 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

AspieOtaku
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11 Jan 2013, 4:26 am

thomas81 wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

Tequila wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

What needs to be answered is how many inocent people die a year by fire arms in a country with gun control (say Japan) and how many inocent people die a year in the US? That's the question relevant to a government. If the difference was little, maybe your trap argument would work, but it isn't.

You could also argue the rate of deaths in a country like Switzerland versus the amount of deaths and murders in the U.S.

Face facts: it ain't the guns that are the problem but the a**holes who use them.

Ding ding ding ding ding we have a winner. You take the guns away you will still see mass murders in America on the news. It wont make a difference.

The difference is it'll make it a hell of a lot harder for potential mass murderers to mass murder. Not everyone has the brains to build bombs and i've never seen or heard of a massacre carried out at knifepoint.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh4oHK8Dgck[/youtube]Fail!

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11 Jan 2013, 5:16 am

ModusPonens wrote:

PM wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

PM wrote:

Raptor wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

What is an "assault weapon"?

Political term for anything that looks scary to the anti-gun lobby.

True.

False.

No need for caps.

I think for myself.

True.

True.

Quibble.

I was referring to the people you agree with, not you in particular.

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heavenlyabyss
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11 Jan 2013, 9:39 am

It is not an argument it is an opinion.

Whenever I say say a thing, it is because I imagine a world without guns, without violence, and I think wouldn't that be nice?

I don't debate attempt to debate gun control on any logical level. I simply state the obvious.

thomas81
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11 Jan 2013, 1:06 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:

]Fail!

the video is irrelevant. It said that CRIME rates went up not gun related crime.

Its probably coincidental, either way it has nothing to do with gun control failing to prevent gun related violence or fatalities.

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11 Jan 2013, 1:58 pm

ModusPonens wrote:

PM wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

PM wrote:

Raptor wrote:

ModusPonens wrote:

What is an "assault weapon"?

Political term for anything that looks scary to the anti-gun lobby.

True.

False.

No need for caps.

I think for myself.

If you think for youoself you wouldnt have said this:

Quote:

And finaly, I'm not the one who is scared enough to need a gun to feel safe.

That is not the result of thinking but of accepting hyperbole.

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11 Jan 2013, 2:41 pm

Some people such as you don't even imagine a different culture beside the gun culture. Here in Portugal there is strict gun control and there's absolutely no gun debate. Apart from some rare loonies, here nobody is pro gun. So, given this context, I arrived at the conclusion that people who want guns for self defense are motivated by fear. I don't know how you're going to deny this, but I'm curious.

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11 Jan 2013, 3:01 pm

ModusPonens wrote:

Yes, but the recent "gunz-r-bad" jabbering here has been about the US of A.
If you're happy in Portugal then that must be a good place for you and probably not me.

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AspieOtaku
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11 Jan 2013, 3:39 pm

thomas81 wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

]Fail!

Maybe not gun guntrol but gun ban yes! And if you payed more attention to the video yes it is gun related because of an increase in ARMED robberies and home invasions afterwards is it a coincidental? Maybe But I Suppose this is coincidental as well?[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTyCD2n6HAQ[/youtube]

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11 Jan 2013, 4:19 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:

We seem to have a pipe bomb problem on this area,I was able to find two links.
One incident that was about 20 years ago a man left a pipe bomb in front of the town grocery,he said the possums told him to do it,serious drug problem.

These two incidents are more recent,

www.topix.com/wire/city/harrison-ar?q:Ky3.com Harrison newswire

F.B.I. offers a reward

http://articles.Ky3.com/2012-07-09/home ... s_32606632

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11 Jan 2013, 5:06 pm

Curious indeed, since you didn't even denied it, which I can assume to mean that I'm right.

adb
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11 Jan 2013, 5:31 pm

ModusPonens wrote:

Curious indeed, since you didn't even denied it, which I can assume to mean that I'm right.

Your forum name suggests you are a fan of logic, which makes me expect that you wouldn't make invalid conclusions such as in both of these posts.

Your context has no bearing on his motivation for wanting guns for self-defense. Violent crime exists in the world. Humans follow the path of least resistance. Criminals will choose the victim that is the easiest and least likely to result in failure. Having a gun will reduce the likelyhood of being a victim. Not knowing whether or not a victim may have a gun is a substantial deterrent to the criminal.

Fear is an emotion. A desire to mitigate risk does not imply fear.

It's also not valid to make a conclusion based on a lack of evidence. A lack of denial doesn't confirm truth.

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