Do you find abortion due to the child´s disability offensive

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thomas81
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14 Feb 2013, 2:10 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

I wish Gates would just come out of the autistic closet already. We all know, man.
Then maybe some of that charity money could go to advocacy programs, eh?

(typo)

Agreed, and Einstein was almost certainly autistic. He was non verbal till the age of 5 and socially eccentric.

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ruveyn
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14 Feb 2013, 3:08 pm

thomas81 wrote:

YippySkippy wrote:

I wish Gates would just come out of the autistic closet already. We all know, man.
Then maybe some of that charity money could go to advocacy programs, eh?

(typo)

Agreed, and Einstein was almost certainly autistic. He was non verbal till the age of 5 and socially eccentric.

That is all relative.

NewDawn
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14 Feb 2013, 3:39 pm

Jacoby wrote:

They have control over their bodies when they choose to have unprotected sex. I'm not against contraceptives or base this in any religious belief. When you create a life, it ceases being just your body and you should be responsible for it.

I wish it were that simple. First of all, contraceptives can fail. A significant perceptage of women requesting abortion actually did use contraceptives. But there is a far larger problem that accounts for most unwanted pregnancies. It´s not irresponsible behaviour. It´s ignorance about sex and contraceptives. In many communities (notably Muslims, South Americans and Africans), there is no sex ed. Talking about such things is taboo. You honestly wouldn´t believe the level of ignorance in many parts of the world, and even in such communities living in the western world. When a woman doesn't know (and yes, you'd be surprised how many don't know that you can get pregnant from sex), it's hardly her responsibility.

Women of non-Dutch origin make up the majority that visit the Dutch abortion clinics. Dutch girls and women aren't morally superior or anything; they are better educated about sex and contraceptives.

Incidentally, and going back to the OP's post: abortion because the fetus has a disability is not one of the top reasons why women have an abortion. Lack of money is number one, followed by poor health of the mother as a second reason.

My own opinion is that it is the choice of the mother, and hers alone. It's not up to me to make a judgement when I don't know the circumstances.

Last edited by NewDawn on 14 Feb 2013, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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14 Feb 2013, 3:55 pm

NewDawn wrote:

This is also a problem in Ireland.

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blunnet
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14 Feb 2013, 9:02 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

I think most people agree that aborting fetuses with severe deformities, such as those with no brain or those who would live short painful lives, is morally acceptable.
What about the "gray area" abnormalities, though? What about Down's Syndrome?

It doesn't matter, I'd favor the free choice of abortion for ANY reason. It isn't as women are forced to abort if the child is detected with a disability, that would be a problem, but making their own decision about it, isn't.

MCalavera
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14 Feb 2013, 9:33 pm

LKL wrote:

No one but the parents, particularly the pregnant woman, have the right to parse the parents' particular circumstances as they relate to the potential issues of the fetus she carries.

No absolute law that dictates this as absolute truth. It's the law of whichever country you reside in that decides what rights any entity in the country should have.

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14 Feb 2013, 9:35 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

It is different because Caylee Anthony was almost three. She was conscious, she had hopes, she had preferences.

A foetus is not conscious and does not have those things.

What if Caylee Anthony was just still a newborn when it died?

Does a newborn have consciousness in the same way adults do? Does it have hopes and preferences?

I wish it was legal to kill newborns as they may also be a burden for mothers who wanted to abort but failed yet still don't want the baby.

Tyri0n
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14 Feb 2013, 9:36 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Tyri0n wrote:

Nope. Wish I'd been aborted. Would have saved humanity a lot of trouble.

Based on what?

Someone with NVLD is not socially useful no matter which way you look at it. It's perhaps more curable than traditional autism, but it's still trouble and cost. Since I believe in reincarnation, I think abortion would have been the best choice in my case -- and other cases like it.

ArrantPariah
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14 Feb 2013, 10:16 pm

Abortion based on gender has led to a dearth of ladies in parts of Asia. Gender-based abortion in USA and Europe doesn't seem to be quite as common.

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14 Feb 2013, 10:29 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Abortion based on gender has led to a dearth of ladies in parts of Asia. Gender-based abortion in USA and Europe doesn't seem to be quite as common.

Yeah, we don't want that, do we?

kimmyxoxo
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20 Aug 2015, 9:23 pm

thomas81 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

That depends on the disability. If the disability is such that the child cannot live a human life, then termination is the best option. If the disability is such that it merely inconveniences the parents, that is a different matter.

ruveyn

in this case, 'human' is something of a weasel word. Take a person with extreme kanner's autism for example. Many people would say they are incapable of living a 'human' life in the conventional sense but it doesnt mean they couldnt live in a different way that is meaningful to them. I would hate for a baby to be terminated on these grounds alone.

If the disability is going to cause long term extreme suffering that cannot be outgrown, rectified or treated, that is the time to consider abortion on these grounds.

I love the emphasis on 'human' and how you have made the point about extreme autism.

I believe termination is justified on the grounds of the mother, her circumstances (if she is able to provide a life for this child, and any financial difficulties), her capability of being a 'mother' and any other possible criteria - it is impossible to lump every single disabled child into the one category and make a complete decision.

Babies with no sense of an enjoyable or otherwise livable life, who are born with a disability, should in my opinion be placed in care or taken care of, as above, according to the mother. But I am very open and of the understanding of the mother's loss of her child; but we must ask what is more sad in the child's circumstances - and whether keeping it alive is only for the benefit of others or truly can live within capacity of itself.

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21 Aug 2015, 2:28 pm

blunnet wrote:

YippySkippy wrote:

Women are not forced to abort children YET. What I find most disturbing about abortion is that it desensitizes sanctioned killing of children and cheapens life. This is the thin edge of the wedge. I truly believe that most Aspies, such as myself, can function well enough in society that they can take care of themselves, but some bureaucrat in the near future will be able to order the destruction of lives simply because there may be a possibility that said lives might be a burden on society. This is called Social Darwinism, and it is alive and well in government circles.

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RhodyStruggle
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21 Aug 2015, 3:04 pm

If it ever becomes possible to detect whether or not a child is Autistic before birth, I think it would be offensive not to abort non-Autistic children.

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Fugu
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21 Aug 2015, 3:23 pm

glebel wrote:

blunnet wrote:

It'd be even more disturbing to watch the population balloon beyond any hope of control and have food shortages and the associated problems that go along with it. Abortion is the lesser evil, despite your weak strawman about forced abortions.

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21 Aug 2015, 4:15 pm

Fugu wrote:

glebel wrote:

blunnet wrote:

You Social Darwinists have been going on and on about how we are going to overpopulate the world for centuries, and it hasn't happened. The only places where there is hunger and grinding poverty are those that suffer from rampant corruption. Accept it, Malthus was WRONG!

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TheRedPedant93
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22 Aug 2015, 3:26 am

As an opponent of abortion on demand, I'm certainly not in favor of aborting high functioning autistic, twice exceptional, dyslexic, or synesthetic fetuses (or anyone with an unusual cognitive syndrome that does not involve, rape, incest or any concurrent physical and/or mental impairment). They have a lot contribute to our society and the world may eventually devolve into an idiocracy (like the one in the 2006 film) if the radical abortionists (most of whom are "progressive" collectivists) and social darwinists (the fascist variety) had their way in controlling their gene pool, and I no longer even support the neurodiversity movement.

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