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MCalavera
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29 May 2013, 2:55 pm

appletheclown wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

God isn't real! He is a man made concept made to give people a false sense of security for lifes problems and give people a dillusion when you die you go somewhere. He is also made up to explain things that cannot be explained scientificly or logically yet. People are expected to believe in skyfairies talking snakes people being made out of dust and the world only being 6000 years old when science pretty much debunked that.

If God existed (which he does), you do realize the absence of himself in matter measurable by science, he would be perfectly capable of doing himself? And he there fore does this to make the ones that believe in him truly stand out, for it was their free will and not God's influence to believe in him and be good men and women? And if he does exist, Then he is still God, capable of perfection in stealth, a parallel universe of spiritual energy, with no matter at all, a construct designed by God for him influence our world without even existing in it.

What free will?

Or, rather, what exactly is free will? Please provide an example to illustrate your point.

MCalavera
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29 May 2013, 2:57 pm

appletheclown wrote:

Fnord wrote:

I go by the maxim that if a thing can not be measured, then it can not be said to exist.

Thought processes? EEGs!

Emotive feelings? Hormonal gradients!

Extra-Terrestrials? ...

Ghosts? ...

Angels? ...

God? ...

If you cannot measure anything exact in the first place, then this example doesn't have much meaning.

If nothing is exact, and nothing perfect, then the opposite of what you say must be true, God does exist.

When something is out of reach of proof and validation, we humans usually do not believe, all evidence is discounted as fraud til the day that impossible thing proves itself to exist, there by effecting our lives, nay-sayers being no longer able to deny it and scoff at those who believed. No human creation is exact or perfect. Not even the fabric of time and space, being so easily bent by black holes, is perfect.

Do you believe in Zeus?

01001011
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30 May 2013, 8:00 am

wittgenstein wrote:

If an argument is invalid, no amount of experiments will prove it otherwise.

The reality is the opposite. Those experiments already prove the idea of qualia is inconsistent. Not argument needed. And no argument can save the idea of qualia.

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30 May 2013, 8:18 am

MCalavera wrote:

appletheclown wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Do you believe in Zeus?

I'm a monotheist, there are even wrongs and rights about it too.

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appletheclown
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30 May 2013, 8:32 am

MCalavera wrote:

appletheclown wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

What free will?

Or, rather, what exactly is free will? Please provide an example to illustrate your point.

Here is an example:
there was your example I had the free will to write this so I did.

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wittgenstein
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30 May 2013, 4:34 pm

01001011 wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

If an argument is invalid, no amount of experiments will prove it otherwise.

The reality is the opposite. Those experiments already prove the idea of qualia is inconsistent. Not argument needed. And no argument can save the idea of qualia.

I already know that is what you believe. Show some evidence.
No, those experiments only show that there sometimes are correlations between brain states and qualia. But wait! How can there be a correlation between something that exists (brain states) and something that does not exist (qualia)?! * The experiments obviously cannot prove the nonexistence of qualia.
* Dennett once again shows how his evidence and argument refutes itself!

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wittgenstein
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30 May 2013, 4:42 pm

How can you prove anything with only facts and not an argument?
Empirical facts must be organized into a syllogism to prove anything. Without a "therefore," facts prove nothing.

MCalavera
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30 May 2013, 9:00 pm

appletheclown wrote:

MCalavera wrote:

appletheclown wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

What free will?

Or, rather, what exactly is free will? Please provide an example to illustrate your point.

Here is an example:
there was your example I had the free will to write this so I did.

But I can argue that you did it because you were triggered by my post to do so. How is that free will if prior factors cause to behave the way you did?

Also, you don't know the rights and wrongs about monotheism. There is no evidence for Yahweh or Zeus or Odin or any deity, therefore it's not reasonable to accept the existence of any of them.

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30 May 2013, 9:45 pm

wittgenstein wrote:

I already know that is what you believe. Show some evidence.
No, those experiments only show that there sometimes are correlations between brain states and qualia.

Evidence 1) The Phi experiment. In the experiment there is a red dot on the right, and a hidden left dot on the left. At some point in time, the red dot is hidden and the green dot is shown after a short time (say 0.01s). Normally people claim that they have 'qualia' of the dot moving from right to left and changes color. The problem is when can they have such qualia?

Evidence 2) Split brain patients. Do they have one qualia or one for each half of brains? How can qualia split when the operation is done?

Quote:

But wait! How can there be a correlation between something that exists (brain states) and something that does not exist (qualia)?! * The experiments obviously cannot prove the nonexistence of qualia.
* Dennett once again shows how his evidence and argument refutes itself!

It is you who is begging the question and contradicting yourself. If qualia cannot be observed by any means, how can one conclude that brain states correlates with qualia?

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31 May 2013, 6:37 am

When did I say that qualia cannot be observed by any means? Obviously,. I believe that I observe them. If I am unaware of a quale, by definition it is not a quale (the particular instance of qualia).

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31 May 2013, 6:41 am

So you are saying that optical illusions don't exist according to me? When did I say that? All that experiment proved is that sometimes our perception (qualia) of reality doesn't match the reality.

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31 May 2013, 8:39 pm

wittgenstein wrote:

When did I say that qualia cannot be observed by any means?

What do you mean by 'observing' qualia? Do you mean you have qualia of you having qualia?

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Obviously,. I believe that I observe them. If I am unaware of a quale, by definition it is not a quale (the particular instance of qualia).

Then 'aware of a quale' is surplus.

Quote:

I think therefore I am. I am aware of my thoughts (qualia) and therefore know that I exist and am not dead.
As to your other question, google "qualia".

Evidentially you don't really have any answer, and Google is not going to help.

[/quote]Qualia is what something feels like to be aware of. [/quote]
Now you have a circular chain of qualia = aware of qualia.

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For example, what red feels like or what a belief feels like. Qualia can apply to any sensation.
That is how pleasure (like) is in the same catagory as being aware that 1+1=2.

The same nonsense again.

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Google, "cognitive phenomenology.

Again, what is the point of telling your opponent to Google a word? Because you have nothing to say?

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". Of course, you don't believe in intentionality (in the philosophical sense of the word, that something can refer or be about something else) so I am sure that you think cognitive phenomenology is gibberish.

In what sense?

Quote:

Do you think "I think therefore I am" is also gibberish?

Yes.

Quote:

So you are saying that optical illusions don't exist according to me? When did I say that? All that experiment proved is that sometimes our perception (qualia) of reality doesn't match the reality.

It is not possible to have any qualia of changing color before seeing the green dot. How is that just an 'optical illusion'?

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01 Jun 2013, 2:17 pm

" In what sense?"
01001011

You deny intentionality (that a word can refer to something) and then you ask,in what sense?

Anyway, I also liked the other jokes you made in that post. OK, you got me with your practical jokes. I took you seriously when obviously you were joking.

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