Is "Stand your ground" helpful or dangerous?

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vermontsavant
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23 Jul 2013, 1:33 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
0bey1sh1n0b1 wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
.they just use guns when it suites there purposes.people who use guns in crime buy guns on the street before they need them and when done destroy them.the search of the person or residence of a gun criminal usualy fails to turn up a gun


No I am not talking about training in gun handling I am talking about training of how to properly identify a threat and proper procedures to handle and if need be disable a possible threat.


I don't believe that your law enforcement officers receive full combat firearm training let alone threat identification and magic ninja tricks. All a bit fantasy I'm afraid.

Vermontservant - A lot of criminals will have a 'stash' spot for weapons that are known by a few individuals. The guns are far too valuable a tool for them to be destroyed.
i dont doubt that but that is still not the same as private gun collections in ones own home.i am sure abandoned building that get turned into crack houses because there is no official person on a lease to be responsable for the homes content.im sure these houses are loaded with guns but that wasnt the point


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neilson_wheels
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23 Jul 2013, 2:51 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
i dont doubt that but that is still not the same as private gun collections in ones own home.i am sure abandoned building that get turned into crack houses because there is no official person on a lease to be responsable for the homes content.im sure these houses are loaded with guns but that wasnt the point


I was not challenging your point, just describing known behaviour.



0bey1sh1n0b1
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23 Jul 2013, 3:01 pm

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You are misreading again. I said most do not receive FULL COMBAT FIREARM TRAINING, that's not saying they don't go to the range or receive any training.


No I read it correctly the first time but let's agree to disagree.

Quote:
If people do not understand when the SYG law applies how are they able to act within their rights?

I'm not going to be drawn on the US gun debate. I have much more firearm experience than the average person in the UK, is that relevant to the situation in the US? No.


That is my point why do we give people algebra problems when they don't understand nor care to figure it out. My point of view is on the grey line of the US gun debate. I don't expect you to get involved with that. However I am all for "right to bear arms" and ones right to protect oneself but some checks and balances need to be enforced. To get a drivers license you need to prove that you know how to drive and that you understand the rules of the road. They don't just give a brief drive around the block and briefly explain to you basic usages of the car and give you a license. You read and study then take the test. As a HAM radio operator they don't let you just pick up a radio and start talking (although some people do that) but it's against the law. You need to take a test on laws/regulations, safety, radio fundamentals, electronic fundamentals, q codes and etiquette. Reasons for which are to ensure that the usage on those bands are controlled and people aren't just doing what they feel like and congesting the radio bands. I am proposing something similar and my proposal would probably piss many gun rights enthusiast off but I think it is a sound proposal. If it weeds out the morons who can't use common sense with a gun then why not implement it.



0bey1sh1n0b1
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23 Jul 2013, 3:08 pm

Raptor wrote:
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On the other hand the gun lobby needs these laws. What's the point of owning a gun if you'll probably never get to use it for real? Of course for the self-defense minded they hope they'll never need to use it for real, but there's another group of people out there who want something to do with their toy and they at least think that these sorts of laws empower them to do exactly that. If the victims of such actions happen to fall into a category of person that these sorts of people can in their own good conscious classify as something less than quite human or otherwise undeserving of living, then in their minds there's little if any harm.

Ah yes; *hoplophobia, paranoia, and the obligatory accusation of racism all neatly rolled into one paragraph. I could feast on this all day, sentence by sentence, and write a mini-dissertation shredding it if I had the time and the inclination.

*Hoplophobia : Irrational, morbid fear of guns. May cause sweating, faintness, discomfort, rapid pulse, nausea, sleeplessness, more, at mere thought of guns.


Yes I agree with Raptor this statement IS bizarre?



neilson_wheels
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23 Jul 2013, 3:14 pm

My personal opinion on the SYG is I agree with you too. I will reiterate that laws are complex in an attempt to cover all potential situations and are not easily translated into guidelines for joe public. I'm just going to move aside now for the gun lovers to get past, okay. Peace. 8)



0bey1sh1n0b1
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23 Jul 2013, 3:29 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
My personal opinion on the SYG is I agree with you too. I will reiterate that laws are complex in an attempt to cover all potential situations and are not easily translated into guidelines for joe public. I'm just going to move aside now for the gun lovers to get past, okay. Peace. 8)


Ha fair enough. The ground is muddy on the other end of the Atlantic as you can see.

Ha a day goes by and no one touches this thread... Probably because I support both Gun Control and Stand Your Ground. This goes to show that people don't want to debate real issues they like the issues where they are. The left doesn't want to fix the left and the right doesn't want to fix the right. America is spiraling and if we can't come together on trivial issues like this how can we come together on anything? There really is no hope for this country is there?