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xenon13
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27 Jul 2013, 9:42 pm

Testimony from people released from the concentration camps Cuba have been quite consistent in depicting the regime there...



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27 Jul 2013, 9:56 pm

LKL wrote:
Former or current detainees missing "all their fingers" or "all their teeth" would be one prerequisite for the claim that 'doctors had removed all of the fingers' or 'all of the teeth' of detainees. Such actions leave permanent results, as humans are incapable of re-growing lost teeth or digits.


For once I have to completely agree with you.


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xenon13
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28 Jul 2013, 1:18 am

I hardly see them giving us the life stories and complete physical characteristics of all Guantanamo prisoners with pictures, etc... how do you know some don't have all their teeth missing, etc, and if we were to see such a person they'd say that they lost their teeth under different circumstances...



xenon13
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28 Jul 2013, 1:20 am

I see Zubaydah lost an eye at Guantanamo... interesting.



ruveyn
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28 Jul 2013, 9:36 am

How did he lose his eye? Do you know or are you just posturing again?

ruveyn



xenon13
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28 Jul 2013, 10:46 am

He does not know... It just happened under the tender mercies of US custody.



xenon13
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28 Jul 2013, 10:47 am

With the culture of secrecy surrounding that concentration camp and the War of Terror in general we are supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not using this secrecy to commit atrocities. So much surrounding these prisoners is kept secret and so we are supposed to conclude that they are being well-treated.



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28 Jul 2013, 8:37 pm

xenon13 wrote:
I see Zubaydah lost an eye at Guantanamo... interesting.

Does Zubaydah claim that the missing eye was taken by a doctor or other official person at Guantanamo?

The presence of missing parts is a necessary but not in itself sufficient piece of evidence for the claim that doctors have been mutilating people.

We do know that they are torturing people; water boarding, force-feeding, and isolation/noise/stress positions are all classified as torture. Please don't pretend that anyone is in denial of that. The fact that these things are occurring, though, does not automatically mean that other awful things x, y, and z are also occurring.



xenon13
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29 Jul 2013, 12:36 pm

May I add that these are people said to have been captured on battlefields (which is not quite true for the vast majority) so it's very easy to explain missing limbs, fingers and teeth...



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29 Jul 2013, 2:58 pm

To be fair, there are a percentage of prisoners who in fact were seized while simply traveling, then were accused of being POW's. Case in point: an American film maker of Iranian descent, while in Iraq, had been arrested while simply riding in a cab, that had been discovered to have been carrying bomb making components, at a military checkout point. He had been held prisoner for years, underwent interrogation, then was promised by the military he would be released only if he signed a confession he had been captured on the battles field - which he refused to do. Eventually, he was freed by government intercession. All that trouble, just because he had wanted to make a documentary on the Persian King Cyrus the Great.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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29 Jul 2013, 3:45 pm

/\ It would really make a lot of sense NOT to be in or around Iraqi or Afghanistan during the post 9/11 operations unless on official US or allied government business.


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Kraichgauer
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29 Jul 2013, 4:08 pm

But remember, the Bush administration had promoted the notion of investment and business ventures in Post Saddam Hussein Iraq. It just seems to me that guy was taking advantage of a US government suggestion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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29 Jul 2013, 4:21 pm

^^Talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


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xenon13
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30 Jul 2013, 2:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
To be fair, there are a percentage of prisoners who in fact were seized while simply traveling, then were accused of being POW's. Case in point: an American film maker of Iranian descent, while in Iraq, had been arrested while simply riding in a cab, that had been discovered to have been carrying bomb making components, at a military checkout point. He had been held prisoner for years, underwent interrogation, then was promised by the military he would be released only if he signed a confession he had been captured on the battles field - which he refused to do. Eventually, he was freed by government intercession. All that trouble, just because he had wanted to make a documentary on the Persian King Cyrus the Great.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That's quite true, the vast majority were snatched, usually sold by militias or bountyhunters or corrupt police. However, the official story is that these were Evil forces taken from the battlefield so if they end up toothless or fingerless at Gitmo well, these people were on a battlefield and sustained injuries in war, that's the explanation, it was nothing we did! Moreover, if we did cut something off, well, there was a valid medical reason. It's very easy to cover up something like that. Oh, and Paul Wolfowitz signed an order that subjected these prisoners to experimentation.



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30 Jul 2013, 2:32 am

xenon13 wrote:
That's quite true, the vast majority were snatched, usually sold by militias or bountyhunters or corrupt police. However, the official story is that these were Evil forces taken from the battlefield so if they end up toothless or fingerless at Gitmo well, these people were on a battlefield and sustained injuries in war, that's the explanation, it was nothing we did! Moreover, if we did cut something off, well, there was a valid medical reason. It's very easy to cover up something like that. Oh, and Paul Wolfowitz signed an order that subjected these prisoners to experimentation.


Really? I'm mean, this isn't "maybe he did, maybe he didn't" hyperbole? I ask, because for a Jew to sanction medical experiments on prisoners is a matter of callously forgetting one's own history.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



xenon13
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30 Jul 2013, 7:51 pm

How Paul Wolfowitz Authorized Human Experimentation at Guantánamo

Last week, Truthout published an important article by Jason Leopold, Truthout’s Deputy Managing Editor, and psychologist and blogger Jeffrey Kaye, revealing, for the first time, a secret memorandum dated March 25, 2002, approved by deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz, which authorized human experimentation on detainees in the “War on Terror.” The release of the memo followed some little-noticed maneuvering in Congress in December 2001, when the requirement of “informed consent” in any experimentation by the Defense Department (introduced in 1972) was quietly dropped. - See more at: http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2010/1 ... RC251.dpuf