36 year old female teacher had sex with 14 year old student

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Schneekugel
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21 Oct 2013, 11:34 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
So boys deserve less to be protected from abusive grown ups?


I don't regard coitus as necessarily abusive.
As I refered again and again, its less about the coitus but about the difference an inequality of dominance in relationships between kids and Adults. Kids want to please Adults. Kids should have sex with others, because they want to do that. Not because they want to please someone, that wants them to have sex with them. Thats the exact same reason, why we dont want adult males to have sex with little girls. Sex with little girls doesnt have as well to be physical abusive. Its about the emotional abusing of a kids need to please an adult. There is no difference between girls and boys.

Schneekugel wrote:
I repeat, you are always talking about the ideal situation of an responsible grown up and an matured kid, truly being in love, and the grown up not using her experience to manipulate the boy to get an unhealthy dominance in that relationship.


No, I'm only talking about coitus. I wouldn't want to get involved with a dominatrix. [/quote]

If we are only talking about coitus, then you are talking about an adult, doing coitus with an underage prostitute. That are the only relationships that are only about coitus. In every other kind of relationships, there are much more factors. You say you want get involved with a dominatrix. So how do you want to avoid doing so, when everything in your mental evolution actually is right now about accepting dominance of others, and that this is something totally normal for you, that you dont even think of? Why do you think is it mostly teenagers that adults blame about...because this is the age, when kids stop mostly accepting adults deeds, but start about thinking, what they think themselves about the topic and refer that.

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Schneekugel wrote:
If that were made legal, how much of that relationships would be according to your ideal, that you are talking of, and how much would be about the worst case situation I am talking about?


The ideal is that the girl retains her hymen until her wedding night. I don't think that the Western World, as a whole, subscribes to any particular ideal with respect to coitus.
How are hymens related to the amount of ideal situation of an female responsible adult, not abusing emotionally a child, that you are speaking of and the amount of females adult, emotionally misusing a child, if that was legal? Have you got some kind of fetish with hymens?

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Schneekugel wrote:
And how should be judged, according to you, which of those scenarios would be actually fitting, and if the boy actually still needed protection because of him mentally not being already matured enough and so in in actual risc of being abused, or if everything is fine?


If he is hurt somehow, then the woman should be punished. Most males, however, enjoy placing their penises into a vagina and ejaculating.
The girls, that had relationships with you, maybe were not able to tell you... but woman actually do enjoy that as well if it is not done in the intention of physical abusive. Just as you will find in any school the actual young dream teacher, that 20% of the girls beyond 12 get wet dreams about. So yes, there are girls that actually wants to "play" with their male teacher, just as this would be enjoyable for them as long as that guy isnt totally stupid.

That they physically can enjoy that, is not the relevant fact, telling us if we want to forbid it or not. If kids are able to pe partners on eyehigh is the relevant fact, that protects them from being absused. Being able to say No. if you dont want something. Because of us talking about people in relationships, and not about underage prostitutes, this is not exclusively based on saying No. about sexual stuff, but about absolutely everything. And if its about bringing beer from the fridge. Many Kids simply dont have written on their face if they are able to already counter as example manipulative s**t like "But if you would truly love me, then..." with the self esteem, that is needed for it.

If a boy has something with an girl the same age, and she tells him something that is weird to him, he will tell her so, and think of his opinion as important as her opinion. While if someone more then double his age, just as little kids do, he will not question it. That questioning and feeling your own opinion and experience as important of that of an grown up, may cause tons of trouble for parents, but in the end is an starting protective mod, that is meant to help the affected person to deal with the adult world. Thats whats normally the attractive stuff for an pedophile, the relationship to someone that is not on eye-high on you, but can be easily manipulated to feel and think the way they want it.

The kid may want to do it to please the adult one, and also may have physical pleasure by doing so, but if the kid matures as a teen and 7 years afterward the now adult that he did not want that to happen, and that he felt emotionally abused afterwards, you cannot undo that. There are enough male kids having that experiences and mentioning it that way. The only way of sexual contact you should have to kids, is by telling them about preventing of conceivement, so they can bash without caring, their heads among their own age-group, and do experiences with people that they automatically see on eyehigh with themselves.



Jono
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21 Oct 2013, 11:53 am

MCalavera wrote:
Are people blind to the fact that a lot of teenage boys crave sex with older hot women?

In my home country, they'll do anything to sleep with prostitutes.

Also, Jono, I don't know exactly what happened. For all I know, she was the naive type who got easily seduced and charmed by a kid who already had the makings of a charming womanizer who was able to have to get it from her.

It's not impossible for teenagers to be shrewd and clever.


Oh, my God. I cannot believe the s**t I'm reading here. Do you not also realise that teenage girls can be just as horny and want sex with older men? So, would you excuse a 34 year old male teacher for having sex with 14 year girl because she had a silly little schoolgirl crush? If a 14 year old girl was horny and decided come on to a 34 year old man, expressing that she wants sex (and believe it or not, girls can in fact do this), then the correct response is to say no. It's the same thing if the genders are reversed and a 14 year old boy tries to "seduce" a 34 year old woman, again the correct response is to say no. Jeez, your whole argument seems to be based on the idea that only little boys can be "horny" and that only men can be predatory. Believe it or not, both males and females can be "horny" and both can be predatory. That "maybe she's the naive type who got easily seduced", seriously? If she can't tell the difference between a 14 year old boy and an adult man, she's got serious problems. Good lord, she's the adult here and therefore she has to take the responsibility to say no. I also call BS on the idea that "no one was harmed", I defy you to do a Google search for support groups for male survivors of sexual abuse and ask them if they agree with you.



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21 Oct 2013, 12:09 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Jono wrote:
Hang on, she is a 34 year old woman who had sex with 14 year old boy. I can understand the argument if they both teenagers who were of similar age. However, in this case it was an adult sexually exploiting minor and since she was his teacher, there is a power differential there as well. That is what age of consent laws are for, or are you perhaps saying that boys do not need to be protected from peadophiles because they're male?


Technically, she is an ephebophile and not a paedophile. I don't see much need to protect teenaged boys from female ephebophiles.


Again, go google for support groups of male sexual abuse survivors, their psychological trauma, even if the abuse was by woman, is exactly the same as if they were female. The reason why molestation is wrong as to do with psychological trauma as well, you know. Otherwise, if you're going to say that it's only wrong to do it to girls because it's physiologically worse for them, such as pregnancy etc, then in order to be consistent, you may as well say that it's no longer wrong for an adult man to do it if he uses a condom so that she doesn't get pregnant. However, it is not just wrong because of that, it's wrong, and illegal, because sexual abuse causes major psychological damage and trauma for the victim later on in life regardless of the gender of the victim or perpetrator. Does that even make sense to you?



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21 Oct 2013, 1:01 pm

pawelk1986 wrote:
Here in Poland we have a sex scandal, almost all the tabloids give it to the first page, television has also addressed this issue.

The thing has become a small town a teacher of mathematics and physics in Gimnazjum (high school) will have a baby with her ​​14 year old student :-)

Television journalist visited the residents of this town and asked them what they thought about it. A large part of the population said it was a very good teacher that teaches children well, residents also said that the boy seducing teacher, wasn't harmed, and enjoyed whole think, because he bragged about it

People were also angry at the reporter from the local newspaper who first wrote about it that deals with gossip and deal with other people's intimate affairs rather than serious matters :D

When a journalist from television, asked what would happen if a male teacher man molested the girl student, the people replied that it would be a different matter, they would have been pissed.

http://www.fakt.pl/14-letni-gimnazjalis ... 778,1.html

I know that in other countries were similar scnadals, and you what do you think about it


Sexual relationships between teachers and students have been going on forever. Probably only a small number are ever made public. No matter how much people despise it, or how may laws are passed against it, it will continue. Because you can't change human nature.

Anyways, adult or juvenile, as long as both parties are old enough to know what they are doing, and the relationship is consensual, there is no victim and the matter should be of no concern of society. At most it should be an ethical issue for the teacher.



ArrantPariah
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21 Oct 2013, 2:27 pm

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/artic ... awaii.html

Milton Diamond Ph.D. wrote:
Sexual Behavior in Pre Contact Hawai‘i: A Sexological Ethnography

.... young females learned from the older women, with whom they remained. They were taught to look forward to sex and appreciate its pleasures. Both sexes heard the sex-positive conversations, songs, and stories of their elders and learned accordingly. By the age of puberty sexual exploration with same-sex age mates was actively encouraged.

....In regard to sex,...the occupation of a young woman is to procreate, which in the Hawai‘ian culture implies all that relates to seduction, in which it is said that women play a more active role than men ... properly feminine activities are . . . chanting, dancing, and other activities that promote eroticism. It is the women who often compose and chant the "mele inoa" (name chants) with their deliberately erotic content, and even the "mele ma ‘i" (chants praising the genitals).”....

Sex training was direct and firsthand. Young individuals learned of coitus and sex play from instruction, direct observation, and practice. As they slept in the family house (hale noa), they observed their parents having coitus....A Mangaian may copulate, at any age, in the single room of a hut that contains from five to fifteen family members of all ages — as have his ancestors before him. His daughter may receive and make love with each of her varied nightly suitors in the same room .... But under most conditions, all of this takes place without social notice: everyone seems to be looking in another direction.

The young observed dogs, pigs, and other animals mating, and these activities were discussed openly with parents or other adults. Parturition was not a secret event and was well attended by the young and by adults, all of whom observed traditions that included the washing and burying of the placenta and, usually, the disposing of the umbilical cord.

The young Hawai‘ian also acquired sex education in day-by-day exposure to precepts, practices, and attitudes concerning sex. Traditionally, . . . childish curiosity about sex was satisfied, with neither guilt nor shame instilled. With variations depending upon rank, region, and social circumstances, the young individual learned the lore of kapu, social restraints and preferences, and attitudes toward both sex for procreation or love and sex for fun and pleasure. Each kind of sex was appreciated for its own value.

AGE AND PREPARATION FOR FIRST COITUS

Individuals of both sexes were expected to initiate and participate in coitus at puberty, although sexual activity, play, instruction, and so forth occurred much earlier. For instance, as part of exploratory play, the young investigated each other’s genitals, and young males and females might masturbate each other heterosexually or homosexually. This activity occurred without adult disapproval, and it was considered to be an introduction to adulthood. Casual intercourse before adolescence was not an uncommon experience both for males and females.

Ellis (1782, Vol. 2, p. 153) wrote of sexual expression in Oceania: “The ladies are very lavish of their favors ... and some of their attachments seemed purely the effects of affection. They are initiated into this way of life at a very early period; we saw some, who could not be more than ten years old.”

The time considered “right” to start coitus was not so much based on chronological age as on ability or maturity. A male doing adult work or holding adult responsibilities was considered to be “old enough.” A young male who could grow taro or catch many fish was considered mature. A female’s first menses usually signaled she was ready for coitus if she had not already experienced it. Kamehameha the Great, who unified all the Hawai‘ian Islands, took his first “wife”, Ka‘ahu-manu, when she was 13; he probably was several years older than she.

As physical signs of maturity appeared. the young Hawai‘ian received more formal sex education. Among commoners, this education was traditionally and usually the responsibility of the tūtū wahine for the females and the tūtū kane (“grandfather”) for the males. Suggs (1966) elaborated on the early sexual experiences of pubertal males with married females in their 30s and 40s in the Marquesas Islands, who “take special pains to be pleasing and patient with them ... a source of enjoyment for many Marquesan women” (p. 61). For young females of the Marquesas Islands, the first coital experience reportedly is earlier than it is for young males before menarche —and occurs unplanned with an adult male (Suggs, 1966, p. 63).

Among ali‘i, an experienced chiefess, usually a blood “aunt,” instructed and trained the young males. Similarly, young females were trained by their “aunt,” by another experienced woman, or by a tutu kane. The training concerned not only what to expect and what to do but also how to increase or maximize pleasure. Less formal but similar training was afforded to commoners. There was practice as well as theory. A young male was taught “timing” and how to please a female in order to help her attain orgasm (Pukui, Haertig, and Lee, 1972, p. 79). A young female was taught how to touch and caress a male and move her body to please them both. She was taught how to constrict and rhythmically contract her vaginal muscles (Pukui, Haertig, and Lee, 1972, p. 79). Several of the informants who were interviewed remember being so instructed. One adult female told of being instructed on how to get her vagina to “wink.”.

These adult/nonadult sexual interactions were socially approved behaviors. Kamehameha the Great, again can be used as an example. Before he aligned himself with Ka‘ahu-manu, he had an infant, while “still a beardless youth,” by Chiefess Kanekapoli, a wife of Kalaniopu‘u (Judd, 1976, p. 71). The infant was welcome and was accepted without stigma, as was any pregnancy resulting from such unions (Handy and Pukui, 1958, p. 110). For adults not to have given such practical education would have been unthinkable - a dereliction of duty.

Most important for Hawai‘ian society, the young learned of sexual humor. Among the Hawai‘ians, sex was and remains a rich source of humor and enjoyment. In everyday conversation and in song and story, it was considered to be an “art form” to speak using sexual double entendres (kaona). One well- known folk song, still sung, uses the vowels as erotic expressions; their elongated sounds are highly sexual: aaaaaaa, eeeeeee, iiiiiii, ooooooo, uuuuuuu (Johnson, 1983). Erotic imagery was, and remains, common in speech, poetry, and songs: coconut tree bending over a female; a digging stick spreading a female’s legs.

Suggs (1966, p. 39) considered the early manifestations of infantile and childhood sexual behavior, including sexual behavior with adults, to be among the most distinguishing features of Marquesan sexual behavior. Many of the activities he described, however, are similar to activities that were present in Hawai‘i and elsewhere in Oceania. Oliver (1974, pp. 458-459), for example, reported on adult/nonadult sexual behavior in Tahiti and quoted the missionary Orsmond from 1832: “In all Tahitians as well as officers who come in ships there is a cry for little girls,” and older females, when in a position to choose, preferred younger males. Marshall (1971, p. 126) described the routine early sexual encounters of young males and females in Mangaia as being with older, experienced males and females.


Coitus between adults and adolescents isn't objectively "bad." Indeed, as Hamlet observed, "nothing is good or bad but thinking make it so."



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21 Oct 2013, 5:06 pm

So it's not statutory rape if the underage person enjoyed it? Newsflash: sometimes 14 year-old girls initiate, and enjoy, sex with older men. That doesn't mean that it's not statutory rape for them, either. The reason for that is because a 14 year old cannot consent. They do not have the maturity either emotionally or knowledge-wise to fully understand what they are getting in to. The adult party is entirely responsible for this, regardless of the genders involved.

@AP: The Hawai'ians also killed and ate Captain Cook. The Europeans around that time still allowed child brides, and executed people by hanging them, disemboweling them, and then cutting them into pieces. What any culture did 100 or more years ago has absolutely no relevance to what we find appropriate today.



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21 Oct 2013, 5:21 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Are people blind to the fact that a lot of teenage boys crave sex with older hot women?

In my home country, they'll do anything to sleep with prostitutes.

Also, Jono, I don't know exactly what happened. For all I know, she was the naive type who got easily seduced and charmed by a kid who already had the makings of a charming womanizer who was able to have to get it from her.

It's not impossible for teenagers to be shrewd and clever.

What do they do when they catch the clap from a ho?
I find it hard to conceive of a fourteen year old boy having that much charm and charisma.
Or even having an idea how to please a grown woman.


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21 Oct 2013, 5:23 pm

We don't even know if the kid was far enough into puberty to be shaving yet.



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21 Oct 2013, 5:34 pm

Jono wrote:
Oh, my God. I cannot believe the sh** I'm reading here. Do you not also realise that teenage girls can be just as horny and want sex with older men? So, would you excuse a 34 year old male teacher for having sex with 14 year girl because she had a silly little schoolgirl crush? If a 14 year old girl was horny and decided come on to a 34 year old man, expressing that she wants sex (and believe it or not, girls can in fact do this), then the correct response is to say no. It's the same thing if the genders are reversed and a 14 year old boy tries to "seduce" a 34 year old woman, again the correct response is to say no. Jeez, your whole argument seems to be based on the idea that only little boys can be "horny" and that only men can be predatory. Believe it or not, both males and females can be "horny" and both can be predatory. That "maybe she's the naive type who got easily seduced", seriously? If she can't tell the difference between a 14 year old boy and an adult man, she's got serious problems. Good lord, she's the adult here and therefore she has to take the responsibility to say no. I also call BS on the idea that "no one was harmed", I defy you to do a Google search for support groups for male survivors of sexual abuse and ask them if they agree with you.


Agreed - I perfectly understand those that, for example, want to engage in ageplay and that try to make schoolgirl/schoolboy roleplay as realistic as possible, but at the end of the day they are adults, are above the age of consent, and neither one has any real power over the other.



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21 Oct 2013, 5:35 pm

LKL wrote:
So it's not statutory rape if the underage person enjoyed it? Newsflash: sometimes 14 year-old girls initiate, and enjoy, sex with older men. That doesn't mean that it's not statutory rape for them,


Actually, in some countries - Germany, Austria, Spain and a whole host of other European countries - 14 year old girls having sex is perfectly legal.



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21 Oct 2013, 5:47 pm

If they have access to birth control,and it's someone in their age range,I have no problem with that.They may not be emotionally mature,but there is no way to prevent kids from having sex at a young age,but they should be well informed about STDs and birth control.And it should be available for free.
Speaking from experience,it is easier for an older sex partner to manipulate the younger one.
Teenagers can be very vulnerable,especially ones that have family problems or mental issues.
When I was a teenager I dated an older man for several years,one of my bigger mistakes in life.


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21 Oct 2013, 5:56 pm

LKL wrote:
@AP: The Hawai'ians also killed and ate Captain Cook.


The Hawaiians did not eat Captain Cook.

Wikipedia wrote:
The esteem in which he was nevertheless held by the Hawaiians resulted in his body being retained by their chiefs and elders. Following the practice of the time, Cook's body underwent funerary rituals similar to those reserved for the chiefs and highest elders of the society. The body was disembowelled, baked to facilitate removal of the flesh, and the bones were carefully cleaned for preservation as religious icons in a fashion somewhat reminiscent of the treatment of European saints in the Middle Ages. Some of Cook's remains, disclosing some corroborating evidence to this effect, were eventually returned to the British for a formal burial at sea following an appeal by the crew.


Moreover, the Hawaiians killed him while he was trying to take King Kalaniʻōpuʻu hostage. His plan backfired in a big way.

LKL wrote:
The Europeans around that time still allowed child brides,


They still do, in some parts of the world.

LKL wrote:
and executed people by hanging them, disemboweling them, and then cutting them into pieces.


You're a fan of lethal injection, then?

LKL wrote:
What any culture did 100 or more years ago has absolutely no relevance to what we find appropriate today.


It might be irrelevant to what you find appropriate. In the present case, we are arguing over whether a specific situation is "harmful", not whether it is "appropriate." Finding that a situation existed normally in a recent culture proves that the situation is not necessarily, nor universally, harmful.



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21 Oct 2013, 6:07 pm

LKL wrote:
So it's not statutory rape if the underage person enjoyed it?


The laws, at least in the USA, as far as I know, define statutory rape based purely on a person's age. Enjoyment is irrelevant to the legal definitions.

LKL wrote:
Newsflash: sometimes 14 year-old girls initiate, and enjoy, sex with older men.


Well, they shouldn't do that. Naughty, naughty.

LKL wrote:
That doesn't mean that it's not statutory rape for them, either.


Correct. A dude has to be very careful these days.

LKL wrote:
The reason for that is because a 14 year old cannot consent.


No. The reason is "because the law says so." A 14 year old may be perfectly capable of consenting, but his or her consent has no legal bearing.

LKL wrote:
They do not have the maturity either emotionally or knowledge-wise to fully understand what they are getting in to.


Some might. Some might not.

LKL wrote:
The adult party is entirely responsible for this, regardless of the genders involved.


To avoid running afoul of the law, minors had better just screw other minors, so that no-one is held responsible.



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21 Oct 2013, 6:30 pm

Jono wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Are people blind to the fact that a lot of teenage boys crave sex with older hot women?

In my home country, they'll do anything to sleep with prostitutes.

Also, Jono, I don't know exactly what happened. For all I know, she was the naive type who got easily seduced and charmed by a kid who already had the makings of a charming womanizer who was able to have to get it from her.

It's not impossible for teenagers to be shrewd and clever.


Oh, my God. I cannot believe the sh** I'm reading here. Do you not also realise that teenage girls can be just as horny and want sex with older men? So, would you excuse a 34 year old male teacher for having sex with 14 year girl because she had a silly little schoolgirl crush? If a 14 year old girl was horny and decided come on to a 34 year old man, expressing that she wants sex (and believe it or not, girls can in fact do this), then the correct response is to say no. It's the same thing if the genders are reversed and a 14 year old boy tries to "seduce" a 34 year old woman, again the correct response is to say no. Jeez, your whole argument seems to be based on the idea that only little boys can be "horny" and that only men can be predatory. Believe it or not, both males and females can be "horny" and both can be predatory. That "maybe she's the naive type who got easily seduced", seriously? If she can't tell the difference between a 14 year old boy and an adult man, she's got serious problems. Good lord, she's the adult here and therefore she has to take the responsibility to say no. I also call BS on the idea that "no one was harmed", I defy you to do a Google search for support groups for male survivors of sexual abuse and ask them if they agree with you.


Your post reeks of self-righteous ego. Who are you to decide that he didn't enjoy it when the evidence points otherwise. Yeah, why don't you continue living your life condemning others over trivial matters possessing the mindset of a witch hunter like many others still do in this modern world and not try to change and think more rationally and reasonably.

Look at it as a case by case thing rather than stereotyping and treating each member of a category as all the same.



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21 Oct 2013, 6:30 pm

I don't know everyone's gender here, but I suspect that it is largely the ladies who are arguing that teenaged boys need to be protected just as much as teenaged girls. There seems to be a certain amount of projecting--of female delicacy onto the male of the species.

Just because girls ought to be protected from men doesn't mean that boys shouldn't have any fun.

I say: Bring On the Cougars!

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sQEb9TSACY[/youtube]



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21 Oct 2013, 6:33 pm

Misslizard wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Are people blind to the fact that a lot of teenage boys crave sex with older hot women?

In my home country, they'll do anything to sleep with prostitutes.

Also, Jono, I don't know exactly what happened. For all I know, she was the naive type who got easily seduced and charmed by a kid who already had the makings of a charming womanizer who was able to have to get it from her.

It's not impossible for teenagers to be shrewd and clever.

What do they do when they catch the clap from a ho?
I find it hard to conceive of a fourteen year old boy having that much charm and charisma.
Or even having an idea how to please a grown woman.


It can happen. Every human is an individual.