If God is Good why is there so much suffering? My Answer!

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AspieOtaku
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05 Dec 2013, 10:29 pm

Gods biggest mistake is giving man free will.


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Bezeone
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06 Dec 2013, 12:03 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Gods biggest mistake is giving man free will.


Of course, if he did not gave men free will, (either preventing nefarious events happening or making humans like robots) I see two problems already.

If we were merely robots with flesh, then horrible things would not occur. Of course, God would then not receive genuine love from his creation. Just robotic-like praise. (Would be like having your children and wife or other love ones truly not love you. Well...if you desired the love anyway.) It would leave an empty feeling which could not be replaced.

On the other hand, we have people who can make their own choices. If they desired something nefarious, God will quickly stop them! Except... Since God will interfere with men's evil desires, then whatever is morally wrong to God is fair game.

Want to murder someone?
God will stop you!

Want to rape?
God will stop you!

Want to Steal?
God will stop you!

It all appears well... until mankind's morals conflict with God's...

Want to have sex before marriage?
God will stop you!

Want to gamble?
God will stop you!

Want to drink?
God will stop you!

Mankind will then become upset as they're not allowed to do what they declare is A-OK. Of course, Satan will be the reason they find fault in it.

Of course, you will question that no suffering is better than any. So how could Satan lead humans into that type of temptation? Well, he did convince a third of the angels of Heaven to join his cause, even though they were directly there in Heaven with his glory.

In other words, after Satan had sin introduced into the world, there was no easy way out of this when it came to free will.



MCalavera
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06 Dec 2013, 12:58 am

You don't have free will anyway. Do you feel like you're a robot?

Plus, if God is in full control, then he'll make sure you never get upset as well if he wanted to.



tern
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06 Dec 2013, 8:39 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
It would appear to me that there is not a great chasm of divergence between deism and aomnitheism?


There is certainly a parallel, but 2 important differences.

* In deism God could still be omnipotent but has voluntarily renounced all intervening.

* Aomnitheism still allows for intervention by God, only in whatever limited forms are avilable that are not magic, are not suspensions of ordinary physics. So for any intervention directly upon matter, there would have to be a physical mechanism, and I think that can't be possible on any bigger than the atomic scale of vacuum fluctuations. But these certainly could have had an impact in the early universe, e.g. in seeding the emergence of big scale structures. The only form of intervention detectable to us now would be where guiding influences upon the actions of people produce results that were not going to happen otherwise, that they did not have the means within themselves to achieve.

It will take until he stops ever doing that, for omni to be removed from the concept 8)



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06 Dec 2013, 4:43 pm

American wrote:
The problem with "the free will argument," besides the fact that there is no such thing as "free will," is that the premise relies on the idea that humans are defective. What perfect being creates defective things?


There is not such thing as free will. We have free choice, but not free will. God dictates our free will according to what He wills.


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06 Dec 2013, 4:47 pm

MCalavera wrote:
You don't have free will anyway. Do you feel like you're a robot?

Plus, if God is in full control, then he'll make sure you never get upset as well if he wanted to.

We have free choice. Allah owns free will to what He commands. That means our lives are written even before we are born. Allah knows our decisions and choices beforehand so He commands that everything we do be written beforehand.


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06 Dec 2013, 5:09 pm

azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
You don't have free will anyway. Do you feel like you're a robot?

Plus, if God is in full control, then he'll make sure you never get upset as well if he wanted to.

We have free choice. Allah owns free will to what He commands. That means our lives are written even before we are born. Allah knows our decisions and choices beforehand so He commands that everything we do be written beforehand.

Then thank Allah for making me an atheist.



Bezeone
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06 Dec 2013, 5:18 pm

MCalavera wrote:
You don't have free will anyway. Do you feel like you're a robot?

Plus, if God is in full control, then he'll make sure you never get upset as well if he wanted to.


Sadly, the premise of certain free will choices, (And their position in power helps.) leave tremendous impacts that may change your whole life around. I know that. But you still can use free will to dig yourself out. (Though, the last part can have different meanings.)

Seeing as how pre-programmed robots have no way to have habits or have interests, I can't say I feel like a robot.

As for anger, as well as jealousy, despair, and the such, they are part of human emotions due to sin's existence, and sin is due to... well, you know who's plan for a supposed better kingdom.



azaam
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06 Dec 2013, 5:44 pm

AspE wrote:
azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
You don't have free will anyway. Do you feel like you're a robot?

Plus, if God is in full control, then he'll make sure you never get upset as well if he wanted to.

We have free choice. Allah owns free will to what He commands. That means our lives are written even before we are born. Allah knows our decisions and choices beforehand so He commands that everything we do be written beforehand.

Then thank Allah for making me an atheist.


You made your self atheist and that falls under the category of free choice.

You weren't' born atheist, remember that please.


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06 Dec 2013, 6:07 pm

azaam wrote:
AspE wrote:
azaam wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
You don't have free will anyway. Do you feel like you're a robot?

Plus, if God is in full control, then he'll make sure you never get upset as well if he wanted to.

We have free choice. Allah owns free will to what He commands. That means our lives are written even before we are born. Allah knows our decisions and choices beforehand so He commands that everything we do be written beforehand.

Then thank Allah for making me an atheist.


You made your self atheist and that falls under the category of free choice.

You weren't' born atheist, remember that please.

I was born atheist. All babies are atheists. And it wasn't a choice on my part, I can't force myself to believe something I don't believe.



MCalavera
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06 Dec 2013, 8:11 pm

Bezeone wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
You don't have free will anyway. Do you feel like you're a robot?

Plus, if God is in full control, then he'll make sure you never get upset as well if he wanted to.


Sadly, the premise of certain free will choices, (And their position in power helps.) leave tremendous impacts that may change your whole life around. I know that. But you still can use free will to dig yourself out. (Though, the last part can have different meanings.)

Seeing as how pre-programmed robots have no way to have habits or have interests, I can't say I feel like a robot.

As for anger, as well as jealousy, despair, and the such, they are part of human emotions due to sin's existence, and sin is due to... well, you know who's plan for a supposed better kingdom.


And yet here you without any free will, with interests and hobbies.

Free will is illogical, and even if it's somehow not, it's practically non-existent in our lives anyway. I mean, what exactly are you really free to do without any prior factors leading to the decision/action?

And your emotions have nothing to do with sin. They've been conditioned into you via zillions of years of evolution.