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Schneekugel
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21 Jan 2014, 11:41 am

I think the US is simply a bit too big, so as a citizen, you simply dont feel any connection to the government anymore.

At least, personally it seems weird to me, that many here are always refering about "them", and what "they" are doing and how "they" are terrorizing them and so on...

I dont know how actually laws are done in the US, but around here if political parties invent laws, then they simply need an majorities agreement. Trying to invent laws or stuff without the public agreement, is simply stupid, because every citizens can go for a citzens poll, whose results needs to be respected if a certain amount of citizens voted for it. So you cannot do laws for long, that have no public agreement, and doing so without asking before, will only cost you voters.

If you ever want to visit an nuclear reactor from the inside, we have one that can be visited, because of an stupid political party thinking, that once they started building it for millions, people wont be voting against nuclear reactors. We did, so they could not activate it. ^^

So for me this "they decide" and "they do", is really hard to understand, because neither have "they" decided anything, but we as citizens have decided about a certain topic, and all they are doing, is in what we as citizens agreed them to do in majority. And part of democracy is, that sometimes, what the majority will want, may not be what I want.

But the same reasons, why I cant simply invent laws on my own, that are only pleasing me and an minority, are as well protecting me from any other minority, simply inventing laws that please only them.

I think the relationship of US people, can be compared to EU-citizens and desicions done in bruessel, that are far more often critized. When it comes to the own government, you are not arguing with the government, about what they are doing, but with your own citizens. If your own government is doing something you dislike, then you know that they do so, because of an majority of people having agreed on an certain oppinion after discussing about that topic. But when it comes to desicions done in bruessel, then you simply start getting problems exchanging oppinion with people and political parties all across europe, so they seem far more anonymous to you and hard to understand. Specially if they are against typical habbits that your country might posess, but tons of other countries dont even know of. (Salt limit for bread and buns...yeah you broussel sprouts, exactly how shall you do a typical austrian "Salt-rod"-bread with a f*****g salt limit? ^^)



The_Walrus
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21 Jan 2014, 12:10 pm

^As above, really.

The government is not a dictatorship. Don't like what they're doing? Elect someone else.

Obviously, that raises the possibility of the tyranny of the majority. Fortunately, most central government politicians seem alert to this possibility, so you're fairly safe... unless you're an immigrant.



Magneto
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21 Jan 2014, 12:11 pm

TheGoggles wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Go speak to the folks over at the Center for a Stateless Society (C4SS), rather than talking to Pseudolibertarians who aren't actually in favour of the free market.


A stateless society would actually require people to actively refrain from seizing power and making a state. So good luck with that.

What's to stop someone from taking over, say, Colorado and declaring it their kingdom? Good luck with that.



TheGoggles
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21 Jan 2014, 12:18 pm

Magneto wrote:
TheGoggles wrote:
Magneto wrote:
Go speak to the folks over at the Center for a Stateless Society (C4SS), rather than talking to Pseudolibertarians who aren't actually in favour of the free market.


A stateless society would actually require people to actively refrain from seizing power and making a state. So good luck with that.

What's to stop someone from taking over, say, Colorado and declaring it their kingdom? Good luck with that.


The state? The one with the massive army?



Magneto
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21 Jan 2014, 1:44 pm

Exactly, the bigger gang. But what if the bigger military was a militia of all the people you're attacking?

The state would fail very quickly if no-one supported it. You can't enforce a law if most people won't obey it, and are willing to shoot anyone who tries to enforce it.