Is being pro-capitalism a conservative position?

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Raptor
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18 Feb 2014, 4:22 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
krankes_hirn wrote:
So... going back to the original question:

I don't think capitalism is necessarily conservative. Conservatism is all about mantaining old social constructs, such as marriage. Although most conservatives fall in the capitalist side of the balance doesn't mean capitalism is conservative itself. Liberatrianism, for instance, is based on free market capitalism, but it is not conservative at all. Most libertarians are in favor of same-sex marriage, drug legalization, and other changes that conservatives are against.

So no, capitalism does not equal conservatism.


I still consider libertarians conservative as a whole. Just because you're not homophobic doesn't make a liberal.


Libertarian is neither conservative nor liberal.
Besides, homophobia itself is not definitive of a persons politics.


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18 Feb 2014, 4:44 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
American middle class:
- Depending on the class model used, the middle class constitutes anywhere from 25% to 66% of households.
- The Drum Major Institute...places the range for middle class at individuals making between $25,000 and $100,000 a year

source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

American population:
- American population 314 million
- So 314 million * 25-65% = thus, 78.5 million to 204 million people in America's "middle class"

source, https://www.google.com/#q=american+population

The World's Poor:
50% of World Population that lives on less than $2.50 a day
80% Total Percentage of People that live on less than $10 a day
So estimated 5.6 billion people live on less than $10/day

sources, http://www.statisticbrain.com/world-poverty-statistics/
http://www.statisticbrain.com/world-poverty-statistics/
http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/human-de ... eport-2013
Source: Global Issues, The Human Development Report
Research Date: 7.23.2012

America is the 1%:
-You need just $34,000 annual income to be in the global elite
- HALF the world's richest people live in the U.S.

Note: NEARLY ALL OF AMERICA'S MIDDLE CLASS IS IN THE GLOBAL ELITE 1%

sources,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... e-U-S.html
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/04/news/ec ... d_richest/

These numbers could be off considerably, however ...

How it fair that an estimated 78.5 million to [b]204 million people in America earn $25,000 and $100,000 a year when 5.6 billion people live on less than $10/day ?[/b]

Where is the socialist outrage ?

Thankfully, capitalism is helping to end this unfairness. :wink:


Not weighing in on this particualr discussion at the moment, but you should be a little more careful with your math. The population is 314 million, not the number of workers. 115.77 million (number of full time equivalent jobs in the US as of Jan 2014) would be a better number to use as your base. And if you want to further increase the accuracy of your comparison, you should also look at the average costs of survival (food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc).

If you put that effort into your work, you would still likely have numbers supporting your views, although they would not be quite as impressive.


1. I stated in the post "These numbers could be off considerably, however ..."

2. We would be amiss to only count "workers", because some people who don't work may still receive social security, pensions, unemployment, or welfare. We would still count a retiree getting a pension as a "middle class person"? We would still count a retiree getting social security and a small pension as middle class ? We would still count retirees living off of investments and welfare as middle class ? We would count some unemployed people middle class too. It is possible that a Walmart worker, earning $15,000 supplemented by welfare would be middle class too ?

In 2011, 58 million Americans received monthly social security checks.
36 million Americans receive pensions

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/17/politics/ ... -security/

3. Unless you provide a definition of what it means to be "middle class", then you have no basis to say the numbers are wrong.



ripped
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18 Feb 2014, 9:38 pm

Capital as a store of wealth, is indispensable in the modern world regardless of ones political views.
'Capitalism' in this sense is neither liberal nor conservative, it is a fact of life.



Inventor
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18 Feb 2014, 11:03 pm

So true, without Capital, and the fractional owners through 401Ks , we would not have employment, pensions, of taxes for liberals to want to spend.

Produce, save or consume, the basic question. Do we invest our wealth and knowledge in the future, or do we put the future in debt?

The easy answer is tax the unborn. Not getting a vote, the future loses.



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19 Feb 2014, 11:40 am

"Conservative," and, "Liberal," are relative terms that cannot be properly understood outside the context in which they are being used.

The terms have become calcified in American political parlance, where they have been lumped together to cover a wide range of issues, and in the process have become increasingly detached from individuals' political self-identity.

In simplest terms, conservatives tend to a political view that says, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Whereas liberals tend to a political view that says, "if we tinker with this, it might work better." Neither is, alone, a satisfactory means of governing a complex nation, and a balance between innovation and caution is always necessary.

But these simplistic notions of conservatism and liberalism often lead to contradictory results in individuals. A person may be a social liberal, a judicial liberal, but an economic conservative. Alternatively, another may be a social conservative, but an economic and judicial liberal. All permutations are possible.

And even if we confine the original post to a question of economic conservatism/liberalism, we still must understand that in context. An economic conservative in the United States is a very different creature from an economic conservative in Sweden, in Brazil or in China.


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