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Gay athletes cannot have a shower?

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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 3:00 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
So, we agree to consider ogling and harassment unacceptable, but we have different solutions.

You want to divide people up, inconveniencing the innocent. I want to shame the guilty into ceasing their unacceptable behavior, inconveniencing the guilty.


Who is guilty in this discussion though? No one has done anything. The OP is talking about gay athletes in the male showers. It doesn't say anyone is guilty of anything. No one has committed "unacceptable behavior".


People in this thread have repeatedly mentioned being harassed as a reason to have separate cubicles.

ETA: Gay people, and for that matter women, probably tend to behave better than some heterosexual males due to having experienced enough harassment to know how it feels. In that sense, it seems like an even better idea to give the bad actors a taste of their own medicine, except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.



Last edited by jrjones9933 on 04 Apr 2014, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 3:03 pm

Separate cubicles, and indeed separate facilities for men and women, perpetuate and reinforce several societal notions which I find ridiculous:
- nudity means sex
- nudity is shameful
and by extension - sex is shameful
and the big one - ogling and harassment are inevitable and natural

In fact, nudity and sex are natural and ogling and harassment are shameful.



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04 Apr 2014, 3:07 pm

But to some people privacy is just natural.I don't care if there is a man in the next stall by me,I just want my own space.


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 3:10 pm

Misslizard wrote:
But to some people privacy is just natural.I don't care if there is a man in the next stall by me,I just want my own space.


Natural in and of itself and not as a natural response to the aforementioned bad actors?



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04 Apr 2014, 3:11 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
But to some people privacy is just natural.I don't care if there is a man in the next stall by me,I just want my own space.


Natural in and of itself and not as a natural response to the aforementioned bad actors?

I think natural in and of itself - it's the same with whatever gender for me.


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appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 3:16 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Gay people, and for that matter women, probably tend to behave better than some heterosexual males due to having experienced enough harassment to know how it feels. In that sense, it seems like an even better idea to give the bad actors a taste of their own medicine, except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.


And if I was a woman you'd say I was too sheltered?

I never knew every single straight man alive deserved to be ogled because they misbehaved. Stop trying to be our mother, and stop generalizing.


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04 Apr 2014, 3:41 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Separate cubicles, and indeed separate facilities for men and women, perpetuate and reinforce several societal notions which I find ridiculous:
- nudity means sex
- nudity is shameful
and by extension - sex is shameful
and the big one - ogling and harassment are inevitable and natural

In fact, nudity and sex are natural and ogling and harassment are shameful.


Your using a slippery slope fallacy. Most of that probably wouldn't even happen.


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 3:42 pm

appletheclown wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Gay people, and for that matter women, probably tend to behave better than some heterosexual males due to having experienced enough harassment to know how it feels. In that sense, it seems like an even better idea to give the bad actors a taste of their own medicine, except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.


And if I was a woman you'd say I was too sheltered?

I never knew every single straight man alive deserved to be ogled because they misbehaved. Stop trying to be our mother, and stop generalizing.


I can't see the steps you took to come to those conclusions, which I consider inaccurate.



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04 Apr 2014, 3:44 pm

I think they are homophobic and afraid they would have gay sex in public showers! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF_eVnfHrTg[/youtube]


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appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 3:45 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Gay people, and for that matter women, probably tend to behave better than some heterosexual males due to having experienced enough harassment to know how it feels. In that sense, it seems like an even better idea to give the bad actors a taste of their own medicine, except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.


And if I was a woman you'd say I was too sheltered?

I never knew every single straight man alive deserved to be ogled because they misbehaved. Stop trying to be our mother, and stop generalizing.


I can't see the steps you took to come to those conclusions, which I consider inaccurate.


It was an exaggeration of your bad actors claim.
So I deserve to be ogled because I'm a straight male?


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 3:46 pm

appletheclown wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Separate cubicles, and indeed separate facilities for men and women, perpetuate and reinforce several societal notions which I find ridiculous:
- nudity means sex
- nudity is shameful
and by extension - sex is shameful
and the big one - ogling and harassment are inevitable and natural

In fact, nudity and sex are natural and ogling and harassment are shameful.


Your using a slippery slope fallacy. Most of that probably wouldn't even happen.


You said you want individual facilities to happen. Those notions I mentioned have widespread currency in our current society already, so we have already hit the bottom of said slope. Your policy would perpetuate those ideas which I find ridiculous, not to mention repugnant.



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04 Apr 2014, 3:47 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
But to some people privacy is just natural.I don't care if there is a man in the next stall by me,I just want my own space.


Natural in and of itself and not as a natural response to the aforementioned bad actors?

When I was little I didn't like playing in the front yard because people on the street could see me.For me privacy is natural.I understand that others enjoy nudity,that's fine.


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appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 3:51 pm

When I think about it, if gay guys ogle me, fine, I could care less. But if one tells me I have no choice but to be ogled, it kind of makes the whole thing an insult and disrespect.

I'm fine with showers the way they are, but don't act like providing cubicles does anything but provide privacy.


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04 Apr 2014, 3:54 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Your policy would perpetuate those ideas which I find ridiculous, not to mention repugnant.


That you shouldn't show your private parts to strangers? Yeah, it is sooo repungant.


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jrjones9933
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04 Apr 2014, 3:54 pm

appletheclown wrote:
It was an exaggeration of your bad actors claim.


Rather than breaking down your chain of alleged logic into smaller steps, you instead make another leap.

appletheclown wrote:
So I deserve to be ogled because I'm a straight male?


jrjones9933 wrote:
except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.



appletheclown
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04 Apr 2014, 3:56 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
It was an exaggeration of your bad actors claim.


Rather than breaking down your chain of alleged logic into smaller steps, you instead make another leap.

appletheclown wrote:
So I deserve to be ogled because I'm a straight male?


jrjones9933 wrote:
except it makes even more sense to demonstrate some self-control and hope that they learn from it.


I AM NOT THEY. Obviously you don't understand that. I'm leaving this discussion.


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