I'm quitting Atheism

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^ you just don't get it. You go on a site aimed at non supernatural thinking then start challenging their opinions and expect them not to pull your arguments apart. You then come on here bitching about their behaviour towards you, and you still don't get it. As has already been stated try going any religious forum and challenge their beliefs, trust me your post in many case won't even make it onto the board, and if it does get past the mods it will be locked and you will get banned.

Like one of the posters on that site said people there are sick and tired of having to explain the same stuff to you over and over again.

why does it matter if the person is famous or not?

In my experience, the main reason many atheists are generally so angry is because they're looking for their life's purpose, and are frustrated because they can;t find it without borrowing from theistic concepts.

For example, Richard Dawkins once called the Biblical God "a capriciously malevolent bully", but failed to mention what objective standard he was using as a comparison. When you remove an absolute moral standard from the equation, everything is literally left to human opinion. Since that changes all the time, then nothing in this world can ever be deemed right or wrong for everyone, from a purely atheistic worldview. Its a self-defeating principle, because many atheists will slam people as "cruel" or "unjust", but those words mean nothing without a steadfast, unchanging definition of goodness or justice.

Yes, but the bible is BS, christians, even within denominations have differing opinions about justice and morality, and atheists have lower prison incarceration rates than christians. Furthermore, figuring out the least harmful course of action can be a complicated process. You can do serious harm if you just make pre-prescribed judgements based on no thought at all.

Last edited by Stannis on 15 Jun 2014, 8:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Well, on this shelf is the Mormon faith, you have to pay more into it but you can have multiple wives.

While over here we have the Muslim faith, you do not have to pay in but your expected to kill those who do not believe as you do.

Over this way we have the Hindu faiths, lots of minor gods included along with witch doctors and those whom like to still practice blood letting.

And here is the pagan religions, mostly nature based but you will need to practice your spells and nature worship.

And again over this way is the Cristian faiths, you have to pay in but minor dues and attend church every Sunday. their quite diverse in their sects but all basically the same.

There are many many more faiths, this is just some trail samples you may want to try out and experience, all for the small price of 19,99 a month + tax and shipping and handling.

So "belief in" (fear of) God and hellfire is the only thing preventing you from murdering your neighbor and eating their liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti? You have no sense of human decency independent of your unprovable sky fairy preventing you from committing horrible atrocities?

You can't quit...YOU'RE FIRED

And you really wonder why people on less moderated forums call you names? By your own words one of the most influential giants in our search for knowledge should not only have been put under a gag order and house arrest, he should have been murdered by these "polite and humble' Christians who wanted to kill him because he proved their concepts of the heavens was wrong and was rude to them when they challenged him!! !! !! ! Can you not see the fundamental flaw to your argument?


So the stubborn nuts who demand death for those they dislike are so much better than the nasty disgusting atheists who call you names?


Massive fail.

You simply do not understand any concept that does not have God as its central core. I am not looking for life's purpose and let alone borrowing from theistic concepts, the purpose of life is life itself. Now you find this an empty world view, I can only assume that is because you do not understand the reality of what it actually means that you are alive, upon this planet,. You simply are not awed by the extraordinary improbability of your existence, instead this life is not enough and you want more, I need not have another life, I might like a longer one but I do not fear death, I feel no need to be good in case a supernatural being takes umbrage at my behaviour, instead I fear retaliation from my fellow animals on this planet if I behave in a manner that infringes upon their well being, and I take pleasure from helping others less fortunate, both of which are evolutionary stable strategies.

Regarding Dawkins he has no need to identify an objective standard, I doubt very much that he believes in one. Other than that which is brought about through the evolutionary process. It is you who raise the concept of objective morality, with what evidence?

The reason I get angry with the religious is nicely encapsulated in your world view, you assualt the minds of the young with your lies about evolutionary biology, you implore homosexuals to abstain and seek help with their ?problem? and you went into the Haven on this webstie and entreated a person with an obvious need of psychiatric help to ?immediately drop to the floor and ask the lord to remove the demon that was inhabiting him?

I have several retired priests as clients as well as some very devout Christians, I have no issue with them, they do not lie to protect their faith, neither do they demand society pass laws in deference to their belief , and they most certainly not do what you did in the Haven.

So to surmise I am not looking for a reason to exist and I am anti-theistic due to the fact people like yourself have far to much influence upon society.

Richard Dawkins. Read his twitter feed and his God Delusion book and there's the answer to that question.

I'm sorry, but I really don't agree with that. And I hate to say it, but it's that sort of waffle that puts athiests off religion in the first place. Plus it shows that you don't understand how they think as individuals. I like talking to athiests because they've usually spent time thinking about what they do or don't believe and have reasons for their conclusions.

Although I kind of loose interest if they become too rude. Their is no need to call people names just because you don't agree with them, so I understand the OP's frustration. Usually I find it easier to talk to athiests face to face rather than on the internet.

I'm going to throw a few names at you:

Jeremy Bentham
Immanuel Kant
G.E.M. Anscombe
John Stuart Mill
and arguably even Thomas Aquinas

What do those people have in common? Hint: it isn't atheism. It's that they thought an absolute morality exists independent of God. Bentham and Mill thought that the outcome of actions determines how moral they are. Kant thought you must never treat a person as a means to an end, and never do anything that would lead to logical inconsistencies if everyone did it. Aquinas thought actions were moral if they fulfilled certain basic biological drives - though as he identified "worshipping God" as one of those, you could argue it isn't secular. Anscombe thought an action was moral if performing it caused you to develop positive virtues.

Now most of those ethical systems lead to conclusions we might well consider unethical - the best are Mill's and Anscombe's - but the same is true of Christian divine command theory. Following Situation Ethics and similar liberal theological ethical theories probably leads to more moral outcomes than DCT.

tl;dr: don't speak like an authority on something you don't know the first thing about

I think it's obvious to most thoughtful individuals that was just his opinion, and he isn't really claiming to have some kind of absolute standard for his opinion. If one carefully listens to the so-called New Atheists, there is an element of projection going on in their thinking. Many of them are quite the authoritarian bullies themselves in their behavior and are subconsciously repulsed by that reality, so they project it onto things they do not understand, like God. If this all sounds fantastical, keep in mind that Sam Harris has been caught saying that perhaps religious thinking is so dangerous that killing religionists is justified.

I doubt that. I'm going to look that up.



He was talking about groups like the Taliban.

It's fundamentally anti-humanistic and illiberal, his ideology would be more at home in Stalinist Russia. Everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, it's really a question of when people act on those beliefs that violates the rights of others. But freedom of conscience is fundamental to the Enlightenment. With one sentence, Harris betrays what he claims to represent.

I was never really into Sam Harris. Reading him just now, he seems to buy into a lot of the Bush administrations war on terror narratives, and this has unfortunately coloured a lot of his anti-theist writings.

Last edited by Stannis on 17 Jun 2014, 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Harris buys into a lot of the Islamaphobia of American populism, then, unlike many on the right, he tries to understand all religion through that perspective. But his ideology owes as much to the quasi-fascism of the some on the Right.