Science and Rationality are not the end all be all

Post Reply New Topic

I'm not sure why you've put ethics in opposition to rationality here. Ethics should be based solely on rationality, not emotion. Although I know that is quite hard for people to do. But when dealing with ethical questions I totally put aside my own feelings and work with my rational moral code (Christianity/Buddhism) to determine my actions. (I have to, I can't trust my emotions.)

Society has been able to agree on certain things to form the legal system. Although that's about provable guilt/evidence rather than ethics. I suppose it might depend on what the burden of proof is. There's different possibilities: rights and their violation, the greatest good/least suffering, karma.
But it is like figuring costs . . . if I went with my emotions I would be angry and behave in a hostile manner towards others because that is my instinct - I feel threatened. I have to trust my rational judgement of the situation. That is, truth isn't found in feeling, but rather in rational thought. So I guess I don't agree that ethics aren't rational.

No, it should not be solely based upon rationality. Emotion has to play a part with rationality. I will agree that one should not let one's emotions get the best of them. What I am saying is that one has to use his emotions in a rationalized manner.

Of course one shouldn't behave in a hostile manner. This is not what I am saying and I don't even grasp how you interpreted what I said in this manner. What I am saying is that one should not behave like an automated machine or robot in addition that one should not behave in a hostile manner. What I am saying is that neither extreme is good and what I see is certain people going to the extreme of behaving like an automated machine or robot.

Have you ever read the story of Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift especially about the Yahoos and Houyhnhnms . You will see the problem of losing one's passion in the name of reason.

I believe people have a MORAL obligation to take others' suffering into account.

"Gulliver's Travels" comes highly recommended--a consummate satire.

Your random direction of inquiry would still need to be investigated by a rational process.

This whole thread is a strawman. No one is suggesting that humans become 100% rational, only that in areas in which reason can prevail, like science, governance, many aspects of morality, etc., we should exercise it. All too often we embrace irrational ideas and suffer as a society for it.

Certain people are trying to treat it as strictly x when it is not.

Which people? You keep talking like "everyone must be absolutely rational at all times" is a commonly held position that is encountered often, but I have not found that to be the case, and you've yet to get beyond simply asserting it.

I have feelings of frustration and futility when trying to speak to some of the members on here. Some of them assume that one can be totally objective and totally impartial. Some of them assume that science, rationality and logic is the only way to obtain truth when it is not. The problem is every person has unconscious assumptions that they're going by and they have emotions as well that is a part of them. We all have our own experiences and genetic code that is unique to every individual.

Some of our perceptions will be different from each. All of this includes us Aspies as well. Science and Rationality is not the end all be all to obtain truth but is but one part in our toolbox. People are not always rational or logical. When one makes a decision one can't just determine the rationality of it like costs but one has to consider things like ethics and emotions of others as well. The scientific method and science are great tools to obtain truth but they're just that. They're just one tool out of other tools that we evolved with. These things are excellent and I am for these things. They have brought us great things. Still, none of us are robots, machines or computers. We're more than that. We human beings are more than just rational beings.

We human beings are the sum of our rationality, consciousness, unconsciousness, genetics, emotions maybe even more including having a soul. Yes, we have to be objective and rational but we can't lose ourselves to that. Please read Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift especially about the Houyhnhnms. They're a race of horses are very rational indeed.

My biggest fear is not that computers and robots may think like humans but what I fear most is the converse. The converse is that human beings start thinking like robots and computers. None of us all have all of the answers. Trying to get other members on here to understand this is so frustrating to me. I'm told by a certain member to draw my own conclusions. Well these are my conclusions from my own perceptions.

This is both a rant and a philosophical discussion but I would like to take this into a more philosophical discussion but I just had to get my feelings on this off of my chest.