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Should The Conferdate Flag Be Banned Entirely?

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Should The Confederate Flag Be Banned Entirely?
Yes, because it is a symbol of racism. 35%  35%  [ 9 ]
No, because it is a symbol of Southern pride. 35%  35%  [ 9 ]
Does it matter? It will put back up regardless of what the people think. 31%  31%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 26

GoonSquad
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23 Jun 2015, 1:34 pm

Jacoby wrote:

What about the fact that slavery existed much longer under the flag of the United States? Singling out the Confederate flag to me seems like an attempt to pawn off a dark aspect of our nation's history as some vanquished foreign apparition when its apart of all our history. I get that its a symbol to rally against and if people want to take it down then that's their choice, I don't see any reason for it to banned.


The difference is that the US flag and the country it represents is a work in progress. We're still trying to make that more perfect union. We should never forget the mistakes and injustices committed under the flag, but that's not what the flag stands for today.

The problem with confederate flags is that they're kinda stuck in time. It was originally used as the battlefield symbol of a White Supremacist government, then it was used as the symbol of a domestic terrorist organization...

Sure, you could argue that most individuals (at least today) who fly that flag aren't active, violent racists, but every official use of that flag has been in the name of violent suppression of black American citizens.

It is not unreasonable for people to object to having this flag fly over government property. Especially when that government is now supposed to serve everyone equally, regardless of race.


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23 Jun 2015, 2:01 pm

Raptor wrote:
Image

Image



AspieUtah
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23 Jun 2015, 2:19 pm

American historian and Columbia University faculty member Eric Foner, Ph.D., wrote in his book Reconstruction: America’s Unfinished Revolution that "[f]ounded in 1866 as a Tennessee social club, the Ku Klux Klan spread into nearly every Southern state, launching a 'reign of terror' against Republican leaders black and white."

"It aimed to destroy the Republican [P]arty's infrastructure, undermine the Reconstruction state, reestablish control of the black labor force, and restore racial subordination in every aspect of Southern life," Foner added.

According to History.com, "[t]hough Congress passed legislation designed to curb Klan terrorism, the organization saw its primary goal -- the reestablishment of white supremacy -- fulfilled through Democratic victories in state legislatures across the South in the 1870s" ( http://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan ).

More recently, the late Democratic U.S. Sen. Robert Byrd was so deeply involved with the Klan that when he passed away in 2010, the mainstream media did their absolute best to whitewash his past as a top-level Klan leader and recruiter.

"ABC News noted that 'despite his successful political track record, the Senate's senior Democrat was no stranger to controversy and was once a member of the Ku Klux Klan,' as if calling for the extermination of dark-skinned peoples (as well as Jews, Catholics, and gays) was no more stirring a gaffe than Gary Hart's monkey business," the Daily Caller's Mike Riggs described.

Clearly, the beneficiaries, if not the perpetrators, of such terrorism were Democrats. All this begs the question that, if those who support a total ban on public displays of the Confederate Flag, would they also support a ban of the Democratic Party?


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23 Jun 2015, 2:30 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
American historian and Columbia University faculty member Eric Foner, Ph.D., wrote in his book Reconstruction: America’s Unfinished Revolution that "[f]ounded in 1866 as a Tennessee social club, the Ku Klux Klan spread into nearly every Southern state, launching a 'reign of terror' against Republican leaders black and white."

"It aimed to destroy the Republican [P]arty's infrastructure, undermine the Reconstruction state, reestablish control of the black labor force, and restore racial subordination in every aspect of Southern life," Foner added.

According to History.com, "[t]hough Congress passed legislation designed to curb Klan terrorism, the organization saw its primary goal -- the reestablishment of white supremacy -- fulfilled through Democratic victories in state legislatures across the South in the 1870s" ( http://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan ).

More recently, the late Democratic U.S. Sen. Robert Byrd was so deeply involved with the Klan that when he passed away in 2010, the mainstream media did their absolute best to whitewash his past as a top-level Klan leader and recruiter.

"ABC News noted that 'despite his successful political track record, the Senate's senior Democrat was no stranger to controversy and was once a member of the Ku Klux Klan,' as if calling for the extermination of dark-skinned peoples (as well as Jews, Catholics, and gays) was no more stirring a gaffe than Gary Hart's monkey business," the Daily Caller's Mike Riggs described.

Clearly, the beneficiaries, if not the perpetrators, of such terrorism were Democrats. All this begs the question that, if those who support a total ban on public displays of the Confederate Flag, would they also support a ban of the Democratic Party?
why are you taking a clickbait rag seriously?

especially one that claims to be reporting on history and completely glosses over the Southern Strategy:

Quote:
From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that...but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.



Last edited by Fugu on 23 Jun 2015, 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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23 Jun 2015, 2:31 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
American historian and Columbia University faculty member Eric Foner, Ph.D., wrote in his book Reconstruction: America’s Unfinished Revolution that "[f]ounded in 1866 as a Tennessee social club, the Ku Klux Klan spread into nearly every Southern state, launching a 'reign of terror' against Republican leaders black and white."

"It aimed to destroy the Republican [P]arty's infrastructure, undermine the Reconstruction state, reestablish control of the black labor force, and restore racial subordination in every aspect of Southern life," Foner added.

According to History.com, "[t]hough Congress passed legislation designed to curb Klan terrorism, the organization saw its primary goal -- the reestablishment of white supremacy -- fulfilled through Democratic victories in state legislatures across the South in the 1870s" ( http://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan ).

More recently, the late Democratic U.S. Sen. Robert Byrd was so deeply involved with the Klan that when he passed away in 2010, the mainstream media did their absolute best to whitewash his past as a top-level Klan leader and recruiter.

"ABC News noted that 'despite his successful political track record, the Senate's senior Democrat was no stranger to controversy and was once a member of the Ku Klux Klan,' as if calling for the extermination of dark-skinned peoples (as well as Jews, Catholics, and gays) was no more stirring a gaffe than Gary Hart's monkey business," the Daily Caller's Mike Riggs described.

Clearly, the beneficiaries, if not the perpetrators, of such terrorism were Democrats. All this begs the question that, if those who support a total ban on public displays of the Confederate Flag, would they also support a ban of the Democratic Party?


Those Democrats in question were white, southern Democrats, most of whom (with the exception of a few like Byrd) were enticed to join the Republican party by Nixon, then later Reagan, as a reaction to Democratic support of civil rights.


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AspieUtah
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23 Jun 2015, 4:08 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Those Democrats in question were white, southern Democrats[.]

Indeed. That was my point. Their actions represented the Democratic Party as a whole as much as anyone between the 1850s and 1980. That they benefited for their first 70 years or more from the actions of others including the Ku Klux Klan speaks volumes of where the party's loyalties rested.

Is there any logical repudiation of a party with such a history?


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23 Jun 2015, 4:39 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those Democrats in question were white, southern Democrats, most of whom (with the exception of a few like Byrd) were enticed to join the Republican party by Nixon, then later Reagan, as a reaction to Democratic support of civil rights.

Is there any logical repudiation of a party with such a history?
there isn't one, which is why the republican party has been the stronghold of racist southern whites since the Southern Strategy.



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23 Jun 2015, 5:10 pm

Fugu wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those Democrats in question were white, southern Democrats, most of whom (with the exception of a few like Byrd) were enticed to join the Republican party by Nixon, then later Reagan, as a reaction to Democratic support of civil rights.

Is there any logical repudiation of a party with such a history?
there isn't one, which is why the republican party has been the stronghold of racist southern whites since the Southern Strategy.

If we can discuss the idea of banning the Confederate Flag because of its connection to slavery and the Ku Klux Klan over a hundred years ago, shouldn't we also discuss the idea of banning the Democratic Party because of its connection to slavery and the Ku Klux Klan over a hundred years ago?


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23 Jun 2015, 5:18 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Fugu wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those Democrats in question were white, southern Democrats, most of whom (with the exception of a few like Byrd) were enticed to join the Republican party by Nixon, then later Reagan, as a reaction to Democratic support of civil rights.

Is there any logical repudiation of a party with such a history?
there isn't one, which is why the republican party has been the stronghold of racist southern whites since the Southern Strategy.

If we can discuss the idea of banning the Confederate Flag because of its connection to slavery and the Ku Klux Klan over a hundred years ago, shouldn't we also discuss the idea of banning the Democratic Party because of its connection to slavery and the Ku Klux Klan over a hundred years ago?


Good point. :D


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23 Jun 2015, 5:32 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Fugu wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those Democrats in question were white, southern Democrats, most of whom (with the exception of a few like Byrd) were enticed to join the Republican party by Nixon, then later Reagan, as a reaction to Democratic support of civil rights.

Is there any logical repudiation of a party with such a history?
there isn't one, which is why the republican party has been the stronghold of racist southern whites since the Southern Strategy.

If we can discuss the idea of banning the Confederate Flag because of its connection to slavery and the Ku Klux Klan over a hundred years ago, shouldn't we also discuss the idea of banning the Democratic Party because of its connection to slavery and the Ku Klux Klan over a hundred years ago?
the Confederate flag exists in it's original form to this day, the democratic party hasn't. also the Conservative Coalition pretty much ended with the retreat of the above-mentioned southern whites to the Republican party.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Jun 2015, 5:56 pm

People are buying lots of confederate flags right now. I thought of buying one off Amazon but most of them are gone.



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23 Jun 2015, 6:17 pm

I've got two cases of confederate flag toilet paper if anyone's interested.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Jun 2015, 6:47 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If the Confederate Flag is banned, what does it mean for Dukes of Hazzard reruns?


Never fear - till it's revealed that the Duke boys were actually government agents, posing as rednecks, trying to bust Boss Hogg and his corrupt, inept police force, I think the General Lee will go untouched. :lol:



Don't be so sure. In the movie, the General Lee's scrubbed clean. Nothing on top.

Warner Bros already distanced themselves from the controversial flag:

http://screencrush.com/dukes-of-hazzard-flag/



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23 Jun 2015, 7:04 pm

Walmart, Amazon, Sears, eBay to stop selling Confederate flag merchandise


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23 Jun 2015, 7:10 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Walmart, Amazon, Sears, eBay to stop selling Confederate flag merchandise

So, more demand (and cash) for those who will sell it.


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23 Jun 2015, 7:11 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those Democrats in question were white, southern Democrats[.]

Indeed. That was my point. Their actions represented the Democratic Party as a whole as much as anyone between the 1850s and 1980. That they benefited for their first 70 years or more from the actions of others including the Ku Klux Klan speaks volumes of where the party's loyalties rested.

Is there any logical repudiation of a party with such a history?


No, they represented the conservative wing of the Democratic party, which was mainly in the south. After all, how would you explain the pro-civil rights wing of the Democratic party if those sheeted bigots had represented all Democrats? It wasn't under a Republican administration that the Voters Rights act was established.


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