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sly279
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18 Jan 2016, 5:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Sly, I can tell you right now, there is zero chance those mass shootings were false flag operations. And where did you get the notion that most mass shooters are liberals? Dylan Roof is a right wing white supremacist, while Adam Lanza's mother, Nancy, was a survivalist nutbar, and there aren't many liberals among them.

Police reports on the shooters backgrounds.



Kraichgauer
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18 Jan 2016, 5:38 am

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sly, I can tell you right now, there is zero chance those mass shootings were false flag operations. And where did you get the notion that most mass shooters are liberals? Dylan Roof is a right wing white supremacist, while Adam Lanza's mother, Nancy, was a survivalist nutbar, and there aren't many liberals among them.

Police reports on the shooters backgrounds.


I'm sure you can delve into all that, but I for one have to go to bed, as my wife, daughter, and I are planning an excursion downtown tomorrow to buy comic books, then are going to meet friends for dinner. Have a happy MLK day. :D


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Jacoby
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18 Jan 2016, 7:36 am

the only people we should be drug testing are our elected officials, breathalyzer on the floor of congress

all public record and open to FOIA of course

the stampede of retirements would be astounding

the way I feel about it; what someone does on their free time is their own business, what someone decides to put in their body is their own business as long as they're not hurting anybody else and what results of that is on them

the real substance abuse is all the high fructose corn syrup, GMOs, preservatives, factory farmed, pink slime, fast food



GoonSquad
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18 Jan 2016, 9:51 am

This whole discussion is pointless and asinine. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF PEOPLE ON DISABILITY USE DRUGS OR NOT.

The fact is, it's cheaper to maintain these people than to cut them off.

Most chronically homeless people have some sort of mental or physical disability with substance abuse as a comorbidity.

I'm sorry my evidence doesn't come from some a**hole's blog. I have to rely on actual research.

According to the United States Interagency Council on Homelessness:

Quote:
Among people who experience homelessness, there is a subset of individuals with disabling health conditions who remain homeless for long periods of time — some for years or decades. These men and women experiencing chronic homelessness commonly have a combination of mental health problems, substance use disorders, and medical conditions that worsen over time and too often lead to an early death. Without connections to the right types of care, they cycle in and out of hospital emergency departments and inpatient beds, detox programs, jails, prisons, and psychiatric institutions, all at high public expense. Some studies have found that leaving a person to remain chronically homeless costs taxpayers as much as $30,000 to $50,000 per year.

...

The solution to chronic homelessness is an intervention known as permanent supportive housing, which combines affordable housing and a tailored package of supportive services that help people achieve housing stability, get connected to health care and other social services, and improve their health and social outcomes. Study after study has shown that permanent supportive housing not only ends homelessness for people with the most severe challenges, but also reduces the use of emergency services and lowers public costs.
https://www.usich.gov/goals/chronic

The economics are SO COMPELLING that the state of Utah has adopted a housing first model and they have nearly wiped out chronic homelessness in the state.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ins ... -millions/
Quote:
The story of how Utah solved chronic homelessness begins in 2003, inside a cavernous Las Vegas banquet hall populated by droves of suits. The problem at hand was seemingly intractable. The number of chronic homeless had surged since the early 1970s. And related costs were soaring. A University of Pennsylvania study had just showed New York City was dropping a staggering $40,500 in annual costs on every homeless person with mental problems, who account for many of the chronically homeless. So that day, as officials spit-balled ideas, a social researcher named Sam Tsemberis stood to deliver what he framed as a surprisingly simple, cost-effective method of ending chronic homelessness.

GIVE HOMES TO THE HOMELESS.





Cutting off benefits to people with substance abuse issues isn't just needlessly cruel, it's also just a STUPID thing to do at an economic level too.

Sorry for derailing this thread with facts.... :roll:

This s**t drives me up a wall. At least with the smart conservatives, you can convince them with the money angle... Unfortunately, more and more cannot be reasoned with at all. :(


https://pathwaystohousing.org/programs- ... first-utah


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mr_bigmouth_502
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18 Jan 2016, 10:34 am

I'm an unusual case. I call myself a socialist libertarian, which is an oxymoron in many people's eyes, but the way I see it, I simply support the idea of a government that helps provide some structure and social programs, without otherwise interfering with people's personal lives. I also believe that while social programs are a great thing to have, people should be able to opt out of them if they so choose.

I'm a strong believer in individualism and individual rights, but I have also come to rely on social programs to assist me in my day to day life. I collect disability cheques, I utilize publicly subsidized healthcare, I utilize a crown corporation postal service, and at one point I even participated in a government-funded program to further my education. Having come to rely on these things, it would be highly hypocritical of me to suggest that a government shouldn't provide these services in the first place.

Another thing I support is progressive taxation; taxing people based on what they can afford. Ideally, I'd like to see most of the tax burden placed on people who are so filthy stinking rich that they don't know what else to do with their money. Unfortunately, people who are that rich tend to flee for greener pastures when this happens, or put their money in foreign tax havens. The solution? Well-enforced, tough-as-nails tax evasion laws, with severe penalties for people who violate them. It's the one truly "anti-libertarian" thing I would support, but there's a very good reason for it. Like it or not, taxes pay for s**t, and if you can afford a yacht, you can afford to pay your taxes. That's just how it is.

OK, I guess I'm more of a socialist than a libertarian. :P But I mean, I support things like LGBT rights, drug law reform, and freedom of expression. I also stand against things like censorship, mass-surveillance, political correctness in both its left and right-wing forms, and idiotic nanny-state laws. I'd say I'm fairly libertarian in those regards.


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nurseangela
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18 Jan 2016, 10:38 am

You don't cut off their benefits, you cut off their substances and get them help to turn their life around. But most don't want to turn their life around because that takes work. I'd like to sit around all day too and get drunk off my ass and not have to worry about a damn thing while everything gets handed to me. That's BS! And don't think I haven't had any problems - I know what alcoholism is all about and I have had depression and I have had anxiety and still do. But I CHOOSE to better myself so I don't end up like my neighbor because alcoholism and substance abuse can happen to anyone (including me) and the way to end it is NOT to dole out the drugs and alcohol and expect the problem to take care of itself because that's just telling the people with the problem that's its OK to be a druggie and a loser because you'll never have anything worthwhile to give to society. You're just looking at how to get rid of the problem of homelessness instead of actually trying to help the people that have the problem lead more productive lives. I care about the people.

The only reason a person would think it doesn't matter that people on disability use drugs is if they themselves are also using drugs and are on disability.


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kraftiekortie
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18 Jan 2016, 10:42 am

Nope.....those school shooters weren't liberals!



sly279
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18 Jan 2016, 2:57 pm

nurseangela wrote:
You don't cut off their benefits, you cut off their substances and get them help to turn their life around. But most don't want to turn their life around because that takes work. I'd like to sit around all day too and get drunk off my ass and not have to worry about a damn thing while everything gets handed to me. That's BS! And don't think I haven't had any problems - I know what alcoholism is all about and I have had depression and I have had anxiety and still do. But I CHOOSE to better myself so I don't end up like my neighbor because alcoholism and substance abuse can happen to anyone (including me) and the way to end it is NOT to dole out the drugs and alcohol and expect the problem to take care of itself because that's just telling the people with the problem that's its OK to be a druggie and a loser because you'll never have anything worthwhile to give to society. You're just looking at how to get rid of the problem of homelessness instead of actually trying to help the people that have the problem lead more productive lives. I care about the people.

The only reason a person would think it doesn't matter that people on disability use drugs is if they themselves are also using drugs and are on disability.



Yes because it's impossible to support people or a cause unless you yourself are one of them. :roll:



Kraichgauer
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18 Jan 2016, 3:42 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Nope.....those school shooters weren't liberals!



I sincerely thank you!


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mr_bigmouth_502
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20 Jan 2016, 11:12 am

Life sucks and drugs provide a way out for a lot of people. People on disability are no exception, in fact they're often on disability because they have to deal with all sorts of BS people who aren't on disability generally don't have to deal with. All drug prohibition does is destroy people's lives and keep organized crime in business. I say end drug prohibition, and end the stigmas associated with drug use.


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Jacoby
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20 Jan 2016, 11:48 am

nurseangela wrote:
You don't cut off their benefits, you cut off their substances and get them help to turn their life around. But most don't want to turn their life around because that takes work. I'd like to sit around all day too and get drunk off my ass and not have to worry about a damn thing while everything gets handed to me. That's BS! And don't think I haven't had any problems - I know what alcoholism is all about and I have had depression and I have had anxiety and still do. But I CHOOSE to better myself so I don't end up like my neighbor because alcoholism and substance abuse can happen to anyone (including me) and the way to end it is NOT to dole out the drugs and alcohol and expect the problem to take care of itself because that's just telling the people with the problem that's its OK to be a druggie and a loser because you'll never have anything worthwhile to give to society. You're just looking at how to get rid of the problem of homelessness instead of actually trying to help the people that have the problem lead more productive lives. I care about the people.

The only reason a person would think it doesn't matter that people on disability use drugs is if they themselves are also using drugs and are on disability.


Cutting off "substances" doesn't change anything, when you have a demand you will find a supply and that is how all black markets work. Making something illegal doesn't magically make it go away but rather drives it underground into the hands of ruthless organized criminals.

Casual drug use is not a problem, when used to excess then drug addiction should be treated as a health problem because the point is to help these people and better them right? It's not all just a ploy to lock the poor in changes is it? If drugs were legal and regulated, they would be much safer. Mind you more people drink and eat themselves dead than anything else but those are completely okay and how the full force of corporate America behind it pumping propaganda into our children brains from the second you plop them down in front of the television, it's best those in glass houses not cast stones.

Do we have a right to privacy as far as our bodies are concerned as said in Roe v Wade? How is it constitutional to criminalize any drugs if it does not harm anyone besides the user? It doesn't seem right that our country somehow gave itself authority over our bodies, they believe they own us.