I am not asking you, I am f*****g telling you! Fantasy based

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Check the stats pal.

The countries with less religion are doing a lot better than religious countries. The non-religious are more law abiding and more peaceful than religious countries.

The non-religious value their hierarchical governing systems while the religious are fighting democracy for their immoral theologies and theocratic systems.

The religious want to slave themselves to a God while intelligent people want to free themselves from the oppressive tyranny of God.

Regards
DL

A moral base?

You mean an immoral base don't you?

Bible God tortures and kill babies when angry with adults and Islam will cut the clitoris off little girls so as to prevent orgasm.

Tell us again which moral tenet you feel those religions are teaching us.

Regards
DL

Indeed. And defining what is not moral as well.

The bible and Islamic holy books do not promote moral theologies.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Regards
DL

Ask this woman and girls if they liked dying for fantasy and metaphor. They are a few of many.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28u4ItL02Fo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Mecc ... chool_fire

Humans may need fantasy but not the type that they kill innocent people over.

Rethink please and get on the right side of this issue.

Regards
DL

LOL.

You do not know Islam. The religion of, hate all but Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... SPvnFDDQHk

As to the Jews, their oral tradition says that a Rabbi can overrule the written Torah and God himself.

Look up the Jewish Divine Council and remember when Jesus asked, ---- have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

Seems you have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw

Regards
DL

Jesus was irritated with the stranglehold the rabbinical establishment had on people. He thought they were getting into idolatrous practices. It wasn't because he believed that they denied the existence of God. It was because he believed that they besmirched God.

I would guess that a rabbi could overrule an item of theology, morality, or whatever within the Torah. He cannot deny that there is a God, though.

Like the vast majority of Christians, Jews, etc., Muslims don't follow their holy book slavishly and literally. They know both are, primarily, works of symbolism at times, interspersed with practical advice, accounts of prophets, genealogy, etc.

Jews do not have faith. Jews have hope.

There is a huge difference.

One of the Jesus' in scriptures taught that the Sabbath was created for man and not man for the Sabbath showing that Jews could work on the Sabbath.

Jesus would also say that religions are created for man and not man for religions.

IOW. Man is supreme and not God.

Regards
DL

Organised religions pushed and embraced Anthropocentrism, and some refer to the concept as human supremacy or human exceptionalism, is the belief that human beings are the central or most significant species on the planet.

Wishfull thinking & oildriven-technologies brought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_utopianism
A techno-utopia is therefore a hypothetical ideal society, in which laws, government, and social conditions are solely operating for the benefit and well-being of all its citizens, set in the near- or far-future, when advanced science and technology will allow these ideal living standards to exist; for example, post-scarcity, transformations in human nature, the abolition of suffering and even the end of death. In the late 20th and early 21st centuries, several ideologies and movements, such as the cyberdelic counterculture, the Californian Ideology, transhumanism, and singularitarianism, have emerged promoting a form of techno-utopia as a reachable goal. (Cultural critic Imre Szeman argues technological utopianism is an irrational social narrative because there is no evidence to support it. He concludes that it shows the extent to which modern societies place faith in narratives of progress and technology overcoming things, despite all evidence to the contrary.)

I'm an atheist/agnostic myself.

I believe in the primacy of one's self over anything/anybody else who seeks to overthrow that primacy.

If somebody wants to try to get me to donate money because it "pleases God," I tell him (in my mind), to take a hike. In actuality, I just tell that somebody that I'm broke at the moment.

But you are equating assault and self-defense. If a thug attacks my family, and I am able to beat him up, that is quite different from me going around beating up little old ladies for their pocket change. Likewise, a legitimate police force, which defends citizens and their property from criminals, is not the same as a gang of thugs which survives by robbing and killing. (As civilization declines, the distinction becomes blurred.)

And how does one go about living according to such a code? If you are in a hurry at the grocery, and there are only little old ladies in line in front of you, do you shove them out of the way so you can go first? I have to say, I find all religions fundamentally irrational, but I'd hire a hundred devoutly religious people before taking on one employee who stated that he had no morals and intended to do whatever he thought he could get away with.

The only reason they are linked is because the Christians all but obliterated most of pre-christian western culture...and imposed their own.

I don't believe any of that, and that is without following a belief in god. I believe my existence is pretty insignificant when it comes to the entire universe, it doesn't care if I live or die...my highest priority is to enjoy life more or less, since death comes when it comes and theres nothing you can do about it. I'll help others if they need help and I can give it...even if it does interfere with personal survival and comfort I don't need a belief in god for that. I would steal and kill if I had to, but I don't think it is wrong to do either of those things when you 'have' to, might still be 'bad' but everyone does bad things...I guess it is a bit subjective though.

But this does confirm my suspicion many christians basically think that without god/jesus they'd be bad selfish people, soley focused on their own survival without regard for others, with no qualms about stealing or killing. But because the omnipresent father in the sky is keeping an eye on them they 'behave' themselves.

But who says morality is absolute? Or that it needs to be in order for people to see it as having any validity?

True. I hope that the spirituality and culture of North America's Indigenous People can be passed on. The idea of respect for nature, for example, is something that is sorely missing from modern western culture.

Yes though that is rather difficult, since so much was destroyed but yeah I think respect for nature is important, and it doesn't seem Christianity has ever incorporated much of that. But I wasn't just referring to that, they also destroyed a lot of pre-christian european culture to, like all the various forms of paganism and such.

I think some of the pre Christian European cultures were to some extent absorbed by Christianity. A lot of Christian festivals like Christmas have pagan roots. And the flood myth goes back to ancient near eastern times.
But Christianity today seems to be about money.