Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

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GnosticBishop
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28 May 2016, 5:41 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Good luck on getting anyone to agree what they are in the first place.

You could see Yahweh as:
- The deity of thunder and lightening of the OT
- A version of Jupiter/Zeus, centered around the symbolism of Jupiter/Chesed, ie. primary law-giver of the microprosia and demiurge below the abyss.
- The two parts masculine (Y and V) and two parts feminine four-elemental (fire, water, air, and earth) formula of creation, really everything from Malkuth to Kether, to the Azoth of Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur.

You could see Allah as:
- The supreme deity who sent Gabriel to chat with Mohammad
- The male aspect of Venus, Friday being their day of worship and Venus being the Islamic crescent, which would be Lucifer albeit in a completely different context the meaning mainstream Christianity likes to tag with that, unless you look at it as Jesus being the bright and morning star of Revelations 22 - thus their Jesus is a supreme deity who they have deep distrust for the idea that It was ever incarnate on earth albeit for reasons beyond most, likely of Sabian origin in some way, Venus is still of central meaning.
- I don't know what Sufi's would say on this, might be some combination of the last two, but I'm sure there are far more possibilities than I mentioned here.

No argument. There are as many definitions for God as there are theists. That is why I did not even attempt to describe God and focused on their morality as well as the religions they have spawned.

So, in regards to Christianity and Islam, do you think they are moral creeds or not?

Regards
DL

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28 May 2016, 5:59 pm

GB

What is the purpose of your questions.

I like questions and I wonder what is the motivation behind them.

Here is a question

What if the Whirling Dervish move in to my neighborhood.

One answer

Let them whirl.

The question is based on the unknown, seeking information/wisdom and perhaps fear based.

There are some like the ones I asked my Biology Teacher, Mr. Stark almost 40 years ago. They were to break my boredom ,curiosity, distraction. Mostly to see what his answer was.

Z. A.

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techstepgenr8tion
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28 May 2016, 6:27 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

No argument. There are as many definitions for God as there are theists. That is why I did not even attempt to describe God and focused on their morality as well as the religions they have spawned.

You did call two of them out by name rather specifically though.

GnosticBishop wrote:

So, in regards to Christianity and Islam, do you think they are moral creeds or not?

I think messed up things happen when you get societal power structures involved. Those two, ie. Christianity and Islam, have simply the been the most in-our-faces. Pin political and land ownership rights to creeds, give tangible power to the clergy, and generally speaking mass inhumanity does ensue. It's interesting too that Hinduism, something that a lot of new agers are known for reaching out to, as it was practiced in India had men burning very live widows on funeral pyres. Several eastern figures were also close friends with higher ups in the SS. On the other hand you can look at Aleister Crowley's Book of the Law and shudder at the kind of religion that would come from that, then go to an OTO meeting and find a bunch of people who translate the entire work peacefully into various kabbalistic riddles about internal dynamics of the psyche.

Something off topic but maybe fair to ask you as a self-styled gnostic, are you familiar with the connection between Valentinean gnosticism and the 30 aethyrs of John Dee and Edward Kelly's Enochian system? Carol Runyon brought that up one one of his radio podcasts - fascinating stuff.

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GnosticBishop
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28 May 2016, 7:04 pm

drlaugh wrote:

GB

What is the purpose of your questions.

To see what people think of the morality of Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

GnosticBishop
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28 May 2016, 7:09 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

No argument. There are as many definitions for God as there are theists. That is why I did not even attempt to describe God and focused on their morality as well as the religions they have spawned.

You did call two of them out by name rather specifically though.

GnosticBishop wrote:

So, in regards to Christianity and Islam, do you think they are moral creeds or not?

I did not see an answer to the morality of Christianity and Islam.

Do you fear judging them or are you just overly politically correct to the point of not wanting to show us your true opinion?

To your last. No I am not familiar with that.

Link me up if you think it a worthy listen please.

Regards
DL

techstepgenr8tion
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28 May 2016, 7:33 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

I did not see an answer to the morality of Christianity and Islam.

I think what good has been in them has almost, and at times in history utterly been, outweighed by the authoritarian junk. If you're still unsatisfied with my answer you might consider just asking whatever question you're really trying to outright. Perhaps there's a whole conversation we need to have that's being evaded otherwise.

GnosticBishop wrote:

To your last. No I am not familiar with that.

Link me up if you think it a worthy listen please.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-hermet ... hyr-system

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drlaugh
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28 May 2016, 7:44 pm

Anyone ---
Are there any moral and ethical people?

Anyone feel
they have the desire to do what is good, but cannot carry it out?

Again are there any in asked questions?

I have another.
Do any of you have jobs, where you have to take an Ethics Class every year or two?
I do an it usually brings out some good discussions.

And another
How do ethics affect you in your homes and at school or work?

Shalom

Zvi Arey.

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yournamehere
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28 May 2016, 9:09 pm

Yahweh And Allah. Are They Moral And Ethical Gods?

No. It's reality distortion.

Written by nutfreaks that were born and grew up in a time ripe with abuse, neglect, and abandonment.

Kind of like right now.

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drlaugh
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28 May 2016, 9:19 pm

Your name here
I had that same conclusion back in the 70's. Well except I had a different word than "nut case". My views have changed.
Have you read any of Mr. Lee's book?

Here's a link if interested.
http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Jeet-Kune-Do- ... 0897502027

Pardon my digression - it comes with me.

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yournamehere
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28 May 2016, 9:58 pm

drlaugh wrote:

Sorry no. I pritty much only watch movies, and read factual tidbits here and there. Books generally put me to sleep, unless i feel i actually need to learn something. I think i have all of his movies. He just thinks outside the box, and makes things work for him. Just like all should be. Because we are all different.

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29 May 2016, 12:31 am

What box some might say.
I know there's times in my life that logic was very needed and when logical solutions were far from needed.

That's my experience or as some might call single anecdotal source.
Piaget had 3 sources or sample of 3. The 3 of course were his kids.
His field / theories of study -children.

An A S L (sign languages image of part angel part devil or Fred Flintstone talking to 2 small ones on his left & right shoulder is a picture of the dichotomy of many people.

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drlaugh
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29 May 2016, 4:13 am

I believe thus quote comes from the Dalai Lama. What do you think it says about Human ethics and values. Is it true?

People were created to be loved.
Things were created to be used.
The reason the world is in chaos is because things are being loved and people are being used.

One big industry in the States is Storage Units. Is this an example if the above?

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29 May 2016, 6:46 am

drlaugh wrote:

Pritty sure that quote had more to do with the tao te ching. The Dalai Lama is a dude. Or many dudes one at a time. Not any room for conversations between Dalai Lama's.

Storage units were not created because of love. They were created because of hording. That is a part of a personality disorder. Not love.

I love some people, and timeless objects. They both make me feel like giving, and spreading it around.

GnosticBishop
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29 May 2016, 9:23 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

I did not see an answer to the morality of Christianity and Islam.

GnosticBishop wrote:

To your last. No I am not familiar with that.

Link me up if you think it a worthy listen please.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-hermet ... hyr-system

Thanks for the link.

My question was simple. "Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?"

Nowhere in anything you have written do I see you use the word moral or ethical so you have not really answered the question.

Sure, you indicate that they have not always acted in a moral way but you seem almost afraid to use honest wording to answer my simple question.

You seem to respect religions, that to me, do not deserve any.

Regards
DL

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29 May 2016, 9:33 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

[
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-hermet ... hyr-system

Thanks for this.
I had a quick look and noted that they are discussing the supernatural as if it was real to Gnostic Christians while to this Gnostic Christian, we have never believed in anything supernatural.

We did write some supernatural into our myths but we never read those literally although some of the Gnostic Gospels can be read in close to a literal way without loosing the belief we were trying to show.

Here is basically what we thought of God.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Regards
DL

GnosticBishop
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29 May 2016, 9:43 am

drlaugh wrote:

Quote:

Anyone ---
Are there any moral and ethical people?

I would say that the vast majority of us are moral and ethical even though many theists have to develop an immoral double standard of morality where they forgive their God for what they would condemn people for doing.

Here is an example of that double standard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mJCCARjyNM

Quote:

Anyone feel
they have the desire to do what is good, but cannot carry it out?

I would imagine that many would like to do more but cannot.

Who, for instance, would not feed all the hungry if they had the power to manipulate the conditions that cause hunger and starvation? That was rhetorical as I cannot see anyone not doing so I they had the power.

Humans are the most good and altruistic species on the planet. Logistics and the need t compete are the only things stopping most of us from always doing good.

Regards
DL

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