police violence and rape culture: 2 sides of the same coin?

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I know that.

I was just showing how flawed that logic is a rapist has. If he thinks it's an invite to rape her because of what she has on just because he was turned on, by that logic anyone is invited to rape someone if they are turned on. It could be body types, hair color, breast size, behavior, mannerisms, how they smile and laugh, attitude, how long or short their hair is, what they have in their hair, and what if someone has a Disney fetish so they saw someone wearing a Disney shirt, oh it's the person's fault for wearing it because they had invited that person to rape them.

That is how flawed what a woman is wearing is. That is how lame it is.

I agree 110%!

So would you say these rapists are incorrigible??? Do you feel rapists are born and not made?? Do you feel people with "a rapist's mentality" (if there is such a thing) are "sick" individuals? Do you think this sickness can be cured or prevented?

Shouldn't these sick people be allowed to have treatment and be treated like any other sick human being?

Would you take any other advise/pointers from convicted criminals? Not really the best choice you know.

i don't know about kraftie, but i, personally, simply don't have any sympathy for any human being who acts with total disregard for other people's life and then doesn't show remorse for it. they don't acknowledge others as human beings, so they have no right to be acknowledged as human beings either. they have the privilege to be acknowledged if they happen to be. and from my point of view, showing an understanding and acceptance of that fact is what remorse means

i don't believe rapists should be all treated as monsters, because it's not a good thing for society as a system to focus on that. but if they do get treated as soulless monsters, well, tough luck

that being said, i'm talking about conscious and deliberate rapists, not people who just happen to be suggestible and entitled (in other words, i'm talking about outright "rapists", not "people with a so-called rape mentality"). neither is right and neither is justifiable, but they are different things with different implications nonetheless

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about the clothing "argument" used by many, i guess every man would like to experience what it would be like to live in a universe where being attracted to a woman means she wants you. unfortunately, we don't live in that universe. therefore, well... therefore... f**k logic! logic is too much of an inconvenience, let's just burn it down to ashes

it's even ironic that anyone would accuse a more provocatively-dressed woman of being to blame for someone's advances, because if a woman is more universally appealing, that means it makes it even less sense to assume that she wants anything to do with you in particular. but the universally appealing element involved makes the excuse more relatable, regardless of how awfully senseless it is

relating has very little to do with logic, and that's why the excuse works. it's a natural instinct that has to be modulated by reason (id versus superego), so willful ignorance is all it takes for it to prevail. even if you assume that it would make sense to assume that a woman was deliberately "looking for trouble", rationally speaking it's ironic to show support for another man and his advances. because... why him? the attitude shows disregard for all other males as well

How do you mean You Don't Know about Kraftie? I have little to no sympathy for rapists. This feeling is magnified by the fact that I was sexually assaulted when I was 18. Luckily, no ill effects either physically or emotionally. I have more sympathy for the victims, frankly.

In answer to Zen Den's questions

1. I think rapists are made; I don't believe the propensity to rape is inborn.

2. No, I don't think rapists are incorrigible--but they have to be punished for their acts.

3. Yes, I think at least some of these people could benefit from treatment. But if they don't benefit from treatment (sometimes, they actually admit that they don't), then they should be separated from society.

4. I don't even believe in a life-long sexual-predator register. I believe anybody who shows that he/she is rehabilitated should be given a "second chance."

yeah, i just meant that i know the question wasn't directed at me, and i can only speak for myself, regardless if i can reasonably guess your stance. poorly phrased, i guess

about the "predator list" thing in the u.s., it's exactly the kind of thing i meant when i said that "i don't think it's good for society to focus on that". it fosters paranoia and morally-based thinking without proper context. then next thing you know, 19-year olds are blacklisted forever as monsters because of petty grievances involving a 17-year old ex or her family. and whaddayaknow, it's actually happening in reality already!

That's cool.

When you said You Don't Know About Kraftie, it could be taken to think I sympathize with rapists somehow. I don't want to be associated with sympathy for rapists--for I really don't have much sympathy for them.

I can't put things in quotes; otherwise, the Captcha Monster takes it.

Yes. Every single goddam time. Yes.
Yes.
(stridency)
Both stem from the feeling that some people aren't really people. For women:
'bad' sexists think (are raised to think) that women are basically sexy livestock: good for a purpose, but ok to use up in the fulfillment of that purpose and without any rights that need or should be protected. Think the Taliban or Saudi Wahabists.
'good' sexists think (or are raised to think) that women are basically sexy pets: cute, friendly, should be protected from harm and controlled because they can't really be expected to take care of themselves. Think Republicans who want abortion to be illegal but don't want women to be punished for it.

Blacks are traditionally seen as 'other' than whites in many parts of America; black children are seen as being older and more dangerous than white children at any given chronological age, black patients' pain is often dismissed as malingering, black people are expected to 'take' more pain and suffering than white people.

In both cases, disobeying or fighting back against 'legitimate authority figures' makes one a 'bad woman,' 'criminal,' 'uppity,' or other terms that basically means that the livestock/kittens are trying to take over the world: cute when they have no actual chance of making it, profoundly disturbing for the 'real humans' if they actually manage it. (/stridency)

[off topic]
I have to spit it out:

Sharia culture and rape culture are two si.... no, are on the same side of the coin.

ie. 70% of rape cases in Sweden are committed by Muslims who are barely 5% of population.

That's because Islamic teachings encourage huge direspect toward non-muslim women, and view them as potential sex slaves.
[/off topic]

So OP, if you want to fight rape culture, start the fight in your own culture.

Of course it's an infantile conceit. Any position or idea primarily held by women must be silly nonsense, eh?
After all, if YOU don't experience something, it doesn't exist!

Do you have anything to add to the discussion beyond infantile, sexist strawmen? You could at least pretend to hide your prejudices.

Uh, you know not all Muslims are the same culture, right...? Right?

You know that I am a Middle eastern, living in the middle east and a former muslim (I am now atheist tho), right? So with all due respect, but I strongly think that I am more familiar with muslim cultures at least 100 times than you can ever be. I don't care if you have plenty of muslim neighbors and friends, you will never know more what I know about muslim cultures.

I was referring to "Sharia culture" - I was being very specific on which set of muslim cultureS and communities I am talking about (the very religious communities who live by the Sharia code - Sunni and Shia alike), and I am not talking about isis only.

This happened in Sydney, Australia too, where some muslims (sunni and shia) gang raped girls and when they got asked why they found religious justifications for it!! And for some reason, muslim communities in Australia are very religious.

You cannot deny there's something very rapey in the religious texts toward non-muslim women.
And I believe that the OP should look into the rape plague in our cultures before looking into the US.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 31 Jul 2016, 5:13 am, edited 4 times in total.

^
I didnt wanna say it but....

The thought did flit through my mind when I saw the original post that....

Let me put it this way: Ms. Barchan should either defend Sharia law, OR attack western notions about rape. That its kinda self defeating of her to do both (in seperate, but concurrent threads) at the same time.

Forget about nonmuslim women.

The whole thing about your own ladies wearing Burkas, and veils, is about covering women up so that men dont go nuts with lust. So its the same idea as the western notion of "she asked for it"- but writ even larger. So it galls me that you can attack the western version of the idea in one thread and at the same time defend the even more extreme version of the same idea in another thread.

(and I am not talking about "Islam" per se. Veils predated Mohammed in the Mideast, and many Islamic cultures today dont interpret their scripture to mean this extreme covering head to toe stuff. But Barchan was defending Sharia which does mean the subset of Islamic countries that do enforce burkas and veils)

Arab atheists found a solution for those who get offended by women's appearance.

yep, i did notice the glaring contradiction as well. i just didn't see the point in bringing it up because the op is clearly looking at things from an emotional point of view, and also i'm not particularly qualified to defend the argument without sounding like it's a personal attack