Anyone still believes Putin isn't tampering US elections?

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Jacoby
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27 Jul 2016, 8:43 pm

auntblabby wrote:
perhaps a dumb question, but how is encouraging a foreign entity to hack into our systems not treasonous?


again, not what was said

The hack already happened, now the information need only be released now and we don't really know who this 'entity' is regardless. I find it treasonous to supply weapons and money to al-Qaeda and ISIS...



auntblabby
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27 Jul 2016, 8:52 pm

I guess treason only applies to the 99%.



Aristophanes
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27 Jul 2016, 9:11 pm

auntblabby wrote:
I guess treason only applies to the 99%.


Yep, pretty much. If you're the 99% that's treason, if you're the 1% that's the official position.



auntblabby
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27 Jul 2016, 9:15 pm

unfair. :|



Mikah
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27 Jul 2016, 9:26 pm

Quote:
It's obvious that Russia had imperialistic designs on the Ukraine.

They want to get that strategic area known as the Crimea.


It is a tad more complicated than that. Ukraine is the most important piece of strategic real estate that sits between east and west, it has been the focal point of several armed conflicts, including the two world wars and a never-ending economic and diplomatic war. Turn the Ukraine away from Russia and Russia is no longer a significant power. It cannot be overstated how important that land is, as a gateway to Russian territory and as the seat of Russia's naval power in the Black Sea, and of course vice versa as a gateway into Europe from the east. In American terms you might think of the Crimea as Alaska and Sevastopol like the Pearl Harbour naval base, except far far more important to Russia than those are to America. If the Russians took over either, how long do you think it would take for an American response?

After the Soviet Union fell and Moscow lost control of a huge amount of land and people (a lot of which the EU promptly gobbled up), a covert war for Ukraine started again, with the EU priming Ukraine with propaganda and setting up various organisations, flooding the place with money, buying influence with people and politicians, all to butter the country up for an alliance. This all gave birth to the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement, which had aspects of economic as well as political union, with some not insignificant military clauses. It would have shifted Ukraine unequivocally away from neutrality and into the Western camp. Russia responded quite frankly, chastising the EU for trying to grab Ukraine and offered Ukraine a very very generous counter deal to stay NEUTRAL and maintain the status quo.

When the President of Ukraine at the time decided - quite sensibly - to take the better deal offered by the Russians, he was "mysteriously" overthrown by a mob, the fact that the head of the CIA happened to be in Kiev at the time, along with John McCain and Victoria Nuland and a few important EU figures all egging on the mob is all completely above board...

The Crimea is a slightly separate issue than the grander Ukrainian pivot, the main problem being it is ethnically Russian, which the rest of Ukraine is not. The Crimean issue has been poorly had handled by the Ukrainian government, their lazy attempts to enforce language usage across the country, forcibly changing people's names to make them less "Russian" just making the situation worse. The people of Crimea tried to separate from Ukraine in the early 90s via democratic means and the Ukrainian government threatened them with violence. Despite all this, Russia made barely a whisper, where many other countries might have gone to war.

The annexation of Crimea and especially Sevastopol looks firstly like a last resort to maintain Russian security in that area and secondly as a warning shot across the bow of the NATO/EU ship, making it quite clear that further sneakiness will not be tolerated. Despite the President's overthrow being completely illegal and unconstitutional, the West and its controlled media says obviously the president Yanukovych was Hitler's 37th reincarnation, and the mob were valiant "freedom fighters" bravely trying to secure their freedom as a vassal state of the EU. While simultaneously condemning Putin's (Hitler no.38) illegal annexation as completely unprovoked, completely illegal, immoral and the beginning of a new Russian Empire.


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Mikah
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29 Jul 2016, 3:39 pm

Related:

http://takimag.com/article/putin_1_inte ... n_alamariu

There’s more than just jingoistic hysteria behind the many accusations that Trump is “Putin’s agent.” In a poetic way, this is true. The international interests that financially wrecked Russia in the ’90s are doing the same to the United States now. Putin stopped them in Russia and Trump is promising to stop them in America. They recognize Trump as the enemy and slander in the only style they know—the paranoid style.


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BaalChatzaf
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29 Jul 2016, 4:35 pm

auntblabby wrote:
perhaps a dumb question, but how is encouraging a foreign entity to hack into our systems not treasonous?
The constitution defines Treason as making war against the United States or giving aid AND comfort to an enemy. Encouraging Russian hackers by cheering them on is NOT aid hence aid AND comfort has not been given. Sorry. No Treason. And legally speaking Russia is not an enemy of the United States.


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auntblabby
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29 Jul 2016, 4:37 pm

BaalChatzaf wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
perhaps a dumb question, but how is encouraging a foreign entity to hack into our systems not treasonous?
The constitution defines Treason as making war against the United States or giving aid AND comfort to an enemy. Encouraging Russian hackers by cheering them on is NOT aid hence aid AND comfort has not been given. Sorry. No Treason. And legally speaking Russia is not an enemy of the United States.

is there anything short of treason that this can be called?



Mootoo
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30 Jul 2016, 4:50 pm

Mikah, you can't possibly accuse Trump's opponents of being paranoid when he's the one who wants to build a wall... conspiracy theories (birthing etc.) for him are the air he breathes. This issue with Russia seems to have technical evidence too, so reality can't be paranoid.

ps. I find it so ironic when historically, with McCarthyism everyone was absolutely terrified of even the colour red, and suddenly the same Republican party is cheering for the Russians, when it's a gangster state...



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05 Aug 2016, 12:08 pm

By the way, now a former acting director for the CIA Michael Morell corroborated on this... still too kind I assume by assuming he's 'unwitting', as if he's not somehow urging Russia like some unruly football fan...

So... the answer by his supporters now would presumably be that the CIA is "too establishment", at which point we presumably should appoint their grannies to gather intelligence... O.o