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GGPViper
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18 Aug 2016, 2:35 am

Deltaville wrote:
To see where that argument fails, compare the amount of alleged miracles of the Christian deity to those with other deities.

The amount and frequency attributed miracles overwhelmingly is associated with the Christian Faith. For instance, in Zeitoun, photographs exist of the virgin Mary during a time where photo manipulation is nearly non-existent, and was seen by both believers and non-believers alike. Miraculous cures were reported.

Lourdes has about 70 recoveries that have been deemed by the LMB as 'medically inexplicable,' and perhaps many more instantaneous cures may have occurred that was not brought under the attention of the LMB. About 7,000 people applied, if I am not mistaken.

In our Lady of Kibeho and our Lady of La Salette, prophecies of genocide and famine were foretold and have occurred historically.

In our Lady of Guadelupe, the tilma has remained intact for nearly 400 years (even though cactus tilma decays normally in 20 years or less), and has virtually no visible brushwork.

In Fatima, people even miles away witnessed unusual solar activity that three shepherd children predicted, and clothes were instantly dried up. Sister Lucia predicted the Second World War too!

In our Lady of Akita, a nun recovered her hearing on the exact day and hour foretold by an angel.

Finally, in our Lady of Medjuorge, people reported sightings of the virgin Mary, and some even had their rosaries change from silver to gold, instantly.

These are just one of many Marian apparitions reported in history.


Ahhhh, you think miracles are your allies?

Bankei Yōtaku wrote:
When Bankei was preaching at Ryumon temple, a Shinshu priest, who believed in salvation through the repitition of the name of the Buddha of Love, was jealous of his large audience and wanted to debate with him.

Bankei was in the midst of a talk when the priest appeared, but the fellow made such a disturbance that bankei stopped his discourse and asked about the noise.

"The founder of our sect," boasted the priest, "had such miraculous powers that he held a brush in his hand on one bank of the river, his attendant held up a paper on the other bank, and the teacher wrote the holy name of Amida through the air. Can you do such a wonderful thing?"

Bankei replied lightly: "Perhaps your fox can perform that trick, but that is not the manner of Zen. My miracle is that when I feel hungry I eat, and when I feel thirsty I drink."

Source: http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/80therealmiracle.html



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18 Aug 2016, 2:52 am

Deltaville wrote:
Finally, in our Lady of Medjuorge, people reported sightings of the virgin Mary, and some even had their rosaries change from silver to gold, instantly.

i still don't have the pony i asked for though

if that's the way how god shows his might, then i believe he wants the incredulous to stay incredulous. and who am i to question his will


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kraftiekortie
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18 Aug 2016, 7:43 am

God wants us to find our own answers. He wants us to stop going to Him every time we have a dilemma.



Barchan
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18 Aug 2016, 9:22 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
God wants us to find our own answers. He wants us to stop going to Him every time we have a dilemma.

Yep. That's why we should always pray for personal betterment (strength, courage, compassion, etc.) that are needed to achieve our desires, instead of just praying for things that we want. God is not Santa Claus.



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18 Aug 2016, 12:56 pm

Deltaville wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
The only God that is known to exist is the Judeo-Christian God.

Proof?Shiva is just as likely to exist.


Utter nonsense. There is a lot more miracles in Christianity then Hinduism.

We have:

The Resurrection ( http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015 ... n-science/)


Marian Apparitions: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2015/ ... -mary-text

(Fatima, Zeitoun, Lourdes, Assiut, Knock, La Sallete... etc)

Miracles can occur in any religion.Other's beleif in their God(s) is just as valid as your beleif in your single diety.You can't disprove the existence of Thor,Sobek,Danu anymore than you can prove your God exists.
Anybody could have been wrapped in the Shroud of Turin,Jesus name wasn't embroideried on it.There are Holy sites all over the world where people go for healing that aren't Christian and others have seen apparitions of their Gods.


To see where that argument fails, compare the amount of alleged miracles of the Christian deity to those with other deities.

The amount and frequency attributed miracles overwhelmingly is associated with the Christian Faith. For instance, in Zeitoun, photographs exist of the virgin Mary during a time where photo manipulation is nearly non-existent, and was seen by both believers and non-believers alike. Miraculous cures were reported.

Lourdes has about 70 recoveries that have been deemed by the LMB as 'medically inexplicable,' and perhaps many more instantaneous cures may have occurred that was not brought under the attention of the LMB. About 7,000 people applied, if I am not mistaken.

In our Lady of Kibeho and our Lady of La Salette, prophecies of genocide and famine were foretold and have occurred historically.

In our Lady of Guadelupe, the tilma has remained intact for nearly 400 years (even though cactus tilma decays normally in 20 years or less), and has virtually no visible brushwork.

In Fatima, people even miles away witnessed unusual solar activity that three shepherd children predicted, and clothes were instantly dried up. Sister Lucia predicted the Second World War too!

In our Lady of Akita, a nun recovered her hearing on the exact day and hour foretold by an angel.

Finally, in our Lady of Medjuorge, people reported sightings of the virgin Mary, and some even had their rosaries change from silver to gold, instantly.

These are just one of many Marian apparitions reported in history.

And sometimes the body just heals itself,no God involved.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312698/
In some cases it's faith,it does not matter what God(s) are involved.The person's belief is what heals them.
http://www.thehindu.com/2000/08/08/stories/0408210o.htm


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sonicallysensitive
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21 Aug 2016, 4:10 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
sonicallysensitive wrote:
Why did we stop inventing gods?

Media/TV providing a constant distraction from 'thinking for oneself'. And, for many, acting as the moral compass - which religion once provided (i.e. principles on how to live etc).


The 'God of the West' is now product consumption.

Almost everyone on this forum will likely be addicted to the news (try one month without it).



Media influence can easily be seen in this section of the forum with the recent prevalence of threads regarding race.

Which is ironic, given most like to believe they think for themselves.


The media and the rules and secular laws they promote are a damned sight better than what Yahweh and Allah promote.

Right?


No, not necessarily.

Plus, it depends how it is framed. Polarities/extremes always raise what look like strong cases against.


Example:


'How can you compare a system that promotes remaining faithful to one's partner ('Thou shalt not commit adultery') to one that ties people to chairs and electrocutes them?


Which is how many secular questions are framed.



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05 Sep 2016, 12:52 pm

Misslizard wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
All the good ones are already taken.


??

Do you see Allah and Yahweh as good gods?

I see them as quite immoral.

Regards
DL

It wasn't meant to be about morality,more about the ones that just seem cool.Like Thor or Shiva.Shiva just looks awesome with that big 'ol cobra draped around his neck.Allah and Yahweh just seem dull in comparison.


Good dull, yes.
Evil dull, no.

Yahweh is a genocidal son murderer and makes an interesting satanic god, ---e Allah is just a jokester who lures little male minds by visions of ever-ready virgins and child brides.

Both of those gods are losers.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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05 Sep 2016, 12:55 pm

Misslizard wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
My mistake,there is a new one.The Great,All Seeing,All Knowing.....Google.


Given that it is the greatest learning tool that man has yet to invent, I see google as a fitting god, as described as the best rules and laws to live by, as a worthy god to learn from. It helps lead us to the greatest minds to date.

Regards
DL

Then Knowledge is the new God.Sounds good to me.


Gnostic Christianity is the only religion that puts knowledge as number 1.

Regards
DL



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05 Sep 2016, 12:59 pm

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
"surviving Gods has been decreasing rapidly for a few thousand years."

I see it mores as more people recognizing what Jung and Freud called the Father Complex and recognizing that they are the only gods they can ever find.

Those are the atheists and agnostic and other non-believers. They are the goats and are not sheeple.

"Atheism and agnosticism seem mainly to "prey on" the established world religions."

Prey?

You mean educate and try to make theists recognize their delusions don't?

Regards
DL

This is taking a step back from my own religeous position. Trying to see it as a social history of competing memes... and while atheism was known in classical Greece, it really took off when movements like the Enlightenment and Communism hit the monotheistic nations.

While my views have slowly hardened from "agnostic" to "atheist," I'm less about the "Great War Against Ignorance!" these days. I've met too many sheepley atheists and non-sheepley Christians for that, including a lay preacher with VERY sharp ideas about the history of her religeon. Mind you, this is in England, where atheism is the norm. And intectual laziness follows the norm.


I see the religious as the most intellectually lazy from the fact that they accept all kinds of foolish miracles while ignoring reality and the immorality of the creeds they follow.

That immorality is exemplified by their homophobic and misogynous ways.

Regards
DL



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05 Sep 2016, 1:04 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
From 3000 BC to 800 AD they were winnowing down the number of gods from many hundreds down to one.

From 800 AD on the argument was about how you conceptualize that same one god.It made no sense to concoct additional "new gods". Then in the last couple of centuries it became a debate over whether there is one god, or zero gods.

So inventing "new" gods has been a rather meaningless endeavor for the last 12 centuries.


I agree when speaking of the supernatural gods.

I do not think it a meaningless endeavour to seek a human god. That god is defined more as the best rules and laws to live life by that we internalize as we create our own god within us.

Regards
DL


Well...if you're expanding the definition of "gods" to include the non supernatural then you cant assume that we even have stopped "inventing gods". The 20th Century was all about competing political ideologies (democracy, communism, nationalism, fascism, Nazism, etc,) which functioned much like religions.


Indeed.

These are all just tribal groups when you taker the theology a philosophy out of them. Men sell their souls for fellowship.

FMPOV, all the gods have always been nothing but the humans who have invented them.

To make god a supernatural entity makes us all second class to an immoral tyrant.

Regards
DL



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05 Sep 2016, 1:06 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
From 3000 BC to 800 AD they were winnowing down the number of gods from many hundreds down to one.

From 800 AD on the argument was about how you conceptualize that same one god.It made no sense to concoct additional "new gods". Then in the last couple of centuries it became a debate over whether there is one god, or zero gods.

So inventing "new" gods has been a rather meaningless endeavor for the last 12 centuries.


I agree when speaking of the supernatural gods.

I do not think it a meaningless endeavour to seek a human god. That god is defined more as the best rules and laws to live life by that we internalize as we create our own god within us.

Regards
DL


Well...if you're expanding the definition of "gods" to include the non supernatural then you cant assume that we even have stopped "inventing gods". The 20th Century was all about competing political ideologies (democracy, communism, nationalism, fascism, Nazism, etc,) which functioned much like religions.


Indeed.

These are all just tribal groups when you taker the theology a philosophy out of them. Men sell their souls for fellowship.

FMPOV, all the gods have always been nothing but the humans who have invented them.

To make god a supernatural entity makes us all second class to an immoral tyrant.

Regards
DL



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05 Sep 2016, 1:08 pm

:roll:

Deltaville wrote:
The only God that is known to exist is the Judeo-Christian God.


Really?

That is a faith based comment that has nothing to do with reality except for showing how you have foolishly rejected reality for a fantasy.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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05 Sep 2016, 1:11 pm

Deltaville wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Deltaville wrote:
The only God that is known to exist is the Judeo-Christian God.

Proof?Shiva is just as likely to exist.


Utter nonsense. There is a lot more miracles in Christianity then Hinduism.

We have:

The Resurrection ( http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015 ... n-science/)


Marian Apparitions: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2015/ ... -mary-text

(Fatima, Zeitoun, Lourdes, Assiut, Knock, La Sallete... etc)


You mean you have a bunch of lies that you have decided to believe are true.

Regards
DL



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05 Sep 2016, 1:38 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
God wants us to find our own answers. He wants us to stop going to Him every time we have a dilemma.


I agree that it is time for adults to put away the things of children and grow up.

Regards
DL



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05 Sep 2016, 1:40 pm

Barchan wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
God wants us to find our own answers. He wants us to stop going to Him every time we have a dilemma.

Yep. That's why we should always pray for personal betterment (strength, courage, compassion, etc.) that are needed to achieve our desires, instead of just praying for things that we want. God is not Santa Claus.


Who do you pray to if not yourself?

Do you see any of the immoral, homophobic and misogynous mainstream gods as worthy of your prayers?

Regards
DL



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05 Sep 2016, 1:46 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
sonicallysensitive wrote:
Why did we stop inventing gods?

Media/TV providing a constant distraction from 'thinking for oneself'. And, for many, acting as the moral compass - which religion once provided (i.e. principles on how to live etc).


The 'God of the West' is now product consumption.

Almost everyone on this forum will likely be addicted to the news (try one month without it).



Media influence can easily be seen in this section of the forum with the recent prevalence of threads regarding race.

Which is ironic, given most like to believe they think for themselves.


The media and the rules and secular laws they promote are a damned sight better than what Yahweh and Allah promote.

Right?


No, not necessarily.

Plus, it depends how it is framed. Polarities/extremes always raise what look like strong cases against.


Example:


'How can you compare a system that promotes remaining faithful to one's partner ('Thou shalt not commit adultery') to one that ties people to chairs and electrocutes them?


Which is how many secular questions are framed.


Not from what I have seen.

"Polarities/extremes always raise what look like strong cases against."

Those who can make a case will.

You seem to agree with Yahweh's and Jesus' no divorce policy.

I think it immoral for anyone to deny a person the right to leave a poor or abusive mate or marriage and also immoral to try to prevent that person from finding a loving life mate.

Do you?

Regards
DL