OK, I have a disability, but I'm more right-wing

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25 Aug 2016, 1:29 am

The libertarian right might be supportive of the individual, but that's the individual who succeeds. What about the individual who falls by the wayside? Are they to be left to die?

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Sweetleaf
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25 Aug 2016, 11:15 am

Dillogic wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

The only people who I've ever heard advocating for sterilization and euphemization are far right white supremacists.

Stalin, Mao and all those other left wing dictators and their governments did a pretty good job in eradicating the undesirables in their societies (mentally ill, drug addicts, and so on).

Modern (last century) eugenics was generally left wing. They figured superior intelligence should be passed on and the disabled removed from society as they're a burden on the family and state. The abortion movement used eugenics as an argument early on (nowadays, aborting a child with Down's simply because of that is eugenics).

I'm sure there are proclaimed right [and left] wing extremists nowadays calling for genocide of someone or something. Most of the right wing extremists that call for such want a strong state to do it, which is actually leftism, but there you go. The "real" right wing ethnic extremist would do it themselves rather than have the state do it (they'd usually be going against the state's orders and laws to do such).

They'd also have to have a pretty good reason to fall on the right [or left] rather than just being racist murderers. Left's reason is for the state. Right should be to move from the state.

Really, they're just racist murderers in most cases (or, they think they would be), rather than doing it in the name of their political ideology. This is the most important thing to realize.

Your new post, that definitions change. Sorta. Stalin, for example, is still just as left as he ever was. The US founders are still just as classically liberal as they ever were (they're an extreme right party that attempted to overthrow the state through violence after all). The biggest contention is what the Nazi Party was; it was socially left but economically middle/right, and this confuses people.

Generally, it goes:

Power to the state to whatever amount = left
Power to the individual to whatever amount = right

Not really, how it generally goes right and left seem to be very vauge terms...Also I see plenty of right wingers that want religious legislation to decrease power of the individual, and plenty of left wingers who certainly don't think the state should have absolute power and believe limits to government power are very important.

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Sweetleaf
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25 Aug 2016, 11:26 am

So I notice my question....What do you think the right wants to do to help the disabled? has gone utterly ignored, I figured some of you right wingers here might have some insight on that. I thought that was the whole topic of this thread, people assuming the right doesn't want to do anything to help the disabled, so is that a wrong assumptoin, or are there things they want to do?

I am genuinely asking, not a trap I swear.

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25 Aug 2016, 11:42 am

Individuals make up any ideological leaning, asking what the right-wing wants to do for the disabled depends on who you ask as there is no one answer as there is no one answer to what the right-wing is and what it entails. A guaranteed basic income is an idea played around with by both 'right-wing' libertarian-ish people but to a lot of outside observers the idea would get you labeled being a communist, Trump believes in protectionism to a certain degree, not traditionally thought of a 'right wing' position in America but is common of nationalists of any ideological stripe. Protecting our industry, protecting our border, stopping our reliance on foreign oil from the Middle East would bring good jobs back to America and would help all Americans(maybe not the 1%ers) not just the disabled.

I don't see much point strawmaning Ayn Rand and Josef Stalin for the argument

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25 Aug 2016, 1:42 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Stopping our reliance on oil/petrolium would benefit people a lot more if you ask me. Either way how does simply 'more jobs' help the disabled, when the disability interferes with working. I don't think an oil field/rig is the best work environment for most disabled individuals based on a field trip I took to one back in highschool. Now the universal basic income I could certainly see benefiting everyone it also might help to address technological advancements allowing for more automated processes in factories/production.

Also just providing more jobs isn't any good if they're crappy jobs, where the CEO makes millions more than its employees just by 'owning' the company. People should not be spending the majority of their time and energy on work for someone else, yet it seems like a lot of right wingers seem to disagree and think that is where a persons value comes from....how long they spend at work. And their big plan to help everyone is simply more jobs, maybe jobs already here need improvement. Also if employers treat their employees like machines that don't need any rest, mental stimulation or leisure time how are disabled people supposed to compete with that to hold jobs? When that's not even healthy for a normal person.

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Jacoby
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25 Aug 2016, 2:08 pm

An abundance of jobs and money helps everyone; it takes people off the doles, it expands the tax base, it allows the families of the truly disabled to better take care of their own. Restricting the labor pool from the unlimited importation of third world labor would increase wages and allow more working disabled and young people(particularly minority youths) to work the more menial jobs on the employment ladder that immigrants and those locked into dead ends often currently occupy. Bringing back industry means good jobs, creating our energy here domestically creates good jobs, everything gets better.

I think technology in the long makes it necessary for their to be a basic income of some sort, automation of 50% of the workforce would be anarchy at best and probably more like living in slavery or a serfdom if nothing else was done. People are not being retrained for other jobs, simply put technology has made a large segment of the population unemployable.

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25 Aug 2016, 2:20 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Even in such a scenario, not every family caring for a disabled person would have the means to do it without government aid. The notion that capitalism alone can solve everyone's problems is as much a fantasy as the notion that absolute socialism can.

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25 Aug 2016, 2:41 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

A more economically healthy country would be better able to assist the disabled in all facets, the aspects of the country that some consider socialist would all be better served and better funded would with more jobs obviously.

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25 Aug 2016, 3:00 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Yes, but an unfortunate characteristic of the right is the belief that government - especially government assistance - is a bad thing, when it first became a plank in Reagan's Presidential campaign and administration.

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25 Aug 2016, 3:06 pm

if you bar the noble peoples from south of the border from performing the menial jobs, surely you don't expect americans to pick up the slack and do those backbreaking jobs at near-slave labor wages, do you? that is the basic reason we let them into this country in the first place, to do those jobs that 99.99% of today's americans are just not suited for.

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25 Aug 2016, 3:12 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Funny how a political philosophy that boasts about cherishing family values is the same one that states people should spend as much time away from their families to work.

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25 Aug 2016, 3:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Funny how a political philosophy that boasts about cherishing family values is the same one that states people should spend as much time away from their families to work.

the family values bennies just applies to the righties' own top 1%. for the sycophants who are part of the 99% [but still see themselves as eventually belonging to the 1%] they may eventually find that they are being paid just lip service.

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25 Aug 2016, 3:21 pm

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Funny how a political philosophy that boasts about cherishing family values is the same one that states people should spend as much time away from their families to work.

Exactly.

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25 Aug 2016, 3:33 pm

Jacoby wrote:

That is good and fine for disabled children, but what about disabled adults who can't very well depend on family. My mom has a job and she wouldn't be able to afford to financially support me. Also I would prefer to keep moving forward and work with whatever programs will help me find a job that takes my disability into consideration....not depend on my mom or other family members to take care of me financially. I don't think it would be possible for me to be considering work if I hadn't gotten on SSI to help me better my situation and have personal resources available to me.

Universal income would probably eliminate the need for SSI, and probably wouldn't come with strings attached on how much you could save/invest....I'd gladly trade in my SSI for that, though I'd still probably need medicaid.

Also how do you define 'good job' my boyfriend worked at the Coors beer factory here for a while as it was presented as a 'good' job and a great opportunity. He ended up getting over-worked and taken advantage of by their B.S corporate hierarchy system. Working multiple 12 hour shifts in a row, with regular 8 time hours in between and no weekends. They'd only give him one day off for a weekend maybe if it was getting close to the absolute legal maximum of how long they could have him come in, without a day off before it was illegal...for 14 dollars an hour. With the chance of 'maybe' getting hired on fully for better pay, in 5 years. I question large corporations and their likely-hood of giving good jobs that aren't completely life draining....seems corporations with bad employment practices are more likely to be rewarded than businesses with ethics who treat their employees well with the direction the republican party wants to go.

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25 Aug 2016, 10:13 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Disability pensions for the genuinely disabled is a right wing stance. As would be treatment options and allowances at school and jobs. As would equal rights for the disabled.

Both the left and right agree with these things, and their ideologies support both.

The disabled are individuals after all, and the right doesn't mean stateless until you get to the extreme (the left extreme isn't any better there in regards to how it could treat the disabled).

The common right isn't a fan of something like welfare for people that have no disability.

Last edited by Dillogic on 25 Aug 2016, 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 Aug 2016, 10:15 pm

androbot01 wrote:

Why make it suffer?

That's something we should leave to the individual, as who gets to decide what amount of suffering is too much?

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