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Stop saying identity politics caused Trump

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Kraichgauer
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23 Jan 2017, 10:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It was directed at me.


If so, I apologize to the gentleman.


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TheSpectrum
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23 Jan 2017, 10:37 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was directed at me.


If so, I apologize to the gentleman.

Not necessary ;) but thanks for the sentiments.

I believe a number of factors "caused" Trump, and identity politics were merely the momentum.


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Kraichgauer
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23 Jan 2017, 10:43 pm

TheSpectrum wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It was directed at me.


If so, I apologize to the gentleman.

Not necessary ;) but thanks for the sentiments.

I believe a number of factors "caused" Trump, and identity politics were merely the momentum.


8)


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24 Jan 2017, 9:04 am

beneficii wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.



Or could it be that you weren't intelligent enough to grasp what she was saying?


Well I was right about the election and Trump so perhaps you're overestimating your own intelligence and the author's who couldn't of been more wrong. In other words, scoreboard.



The author made a good point. There is no such thing as one sided identity politics. To too many on the political right that includes embracing racism/xenophobia/anti disabled/anti gay and trans rhetoric and embracing uncivilised behaviour.

Having said that Democrats have to give Trump as much chance as the Republicans gave Obama to govern. To expect anything more would be rank hypocrisy on the part of Republicans.


Newton's third law, I am not saying that isn't any white identity politics at play but I see it as a natural result of the Democrats full embrace of identity politics as their central ideology. Now I don't see this awakening as a totally bad thing since it has woken GOP base voters up to the fact that their own party does not represent their self interests very well when it comes to certain issues, globalism has destroyed the way of life for these people and they want it back. You can't create a coalition against the dominant demographic grouping and expect to win, you need a 50 state strategy and an idea that appeals to all Americans. Illegal immigration and bad trade deals don't just effect white people, it actually disproportionately hurts the poor and particularly minorities so I see it as opportunity to speak to their interests as well. If the GOP could just capture 20% of tthe black vote and 40% of the Hispanic vote, they'd never lose another election and I don't think those are unreachable or unrealistic figures.

Transgendered bathrooms, fearmongering about Roe v Wade, gun control, and amnesty are not going to win you many votes on their own off college campuses and corporate boardrooms.


The transgender bathrooms issue got Democrats the governorship in red North Carolina, the only governor's race where they were a major issue, so you're really just BS-ing here.

In fact, I've already discussed this issue further up the thread:

Quote:
The one governor's race where transgender issues were prominent, in North Carolina, resulted in a Democratic victory. HB2, also known as the bathroom bill, likely cost former GOP Governor Pat McCrory reelection.

EDIT: According to Wiki, this is significant because no incumbent NC governor had ever lost reelection. McCrory was the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Fa ... curity_Act


If anything, I think Democrats need to make clear we really do believe what we're saying, and we need to make the issue a clear crusade, a fight of good versus evil.


Good luck with that if you even think of putting forth a candidate like Hillary again.



beneficii
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24 Jan 2017, 10:41 am

Tomzy95 wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Author doesn't seem to understand the concept of backlash.



Or could it be that you weren't intelligent enough to grasp what she was saying?


Well I was right about the election and Trump so perhaps you're overestimating your own intelligence and the author's who couldn't of been more wrong. In other words, scoreboard.



The author made a good point. There is no such thing as one sided identity politics. To too many on the political right that includes embracing racism/xenophobia/anti disabled/anti gay and trans rhetoric and embracing uncivilised behaviour.

Having said that Democrats have to give Trump as much chance as the Republicans gave Obama to govern. To expect anything more would be rank hypocrisy on the part of Republicans.


Newton's third law, I am not saying that isn't any white identity politics at play but I see it as a natural result of the Democrats full embrace of identity politics as their central ideology. Now I don't see this awakening as a totally bad thing since it has woken GOP base voters up to the fact that their own party does not represent their self interests very well when it comes to certain issues, globalism has destroyed the way of life for these people and they want it back. You can't create a coalition against the dominant demographic grouping and expect to win, you need a 50 state strategy and an idea that appeals to all Americans. Illegal immigration and bad trade deals don't just effect white people, it actually disproportionately hurts the poor and particularly minorities so I see it as opportunity to speak to their interests as well. If the GOP could just capture 20% of tthe black vote and 40% of the Hispanic vote, they'd never lose another election and I don't think those are unreachable or unrealistic figures.

Transgendered bathrooms, fearmongering about Roe v Wade, gun control, and amnesty are not going to win you many votes on their own off college campuses and corporate boardrooms.


The transgender bathrooms issue got Democrats the governorship in red North Carolina, the only governor's race where they were a major issue, so you're really just BS-ing here.

In fact, I've already discussed this issue further up the thread:

Quote:
The one governor's race where transgender issues were prominent, in North Carolina, resulted in a Democratic victory. HB2, also known as the bathroom bill, likely cost former GOP Governor Pat McCrory reelection.

EDIT: According to Wiki, this is significant because no incumbent NC governor had ever lost reelection. McCrory was the first:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Fa ... curity_Act


If anything, I think Democrats need to make clear we really do believe what we're saying, and we need to make the issue a clear crusade, a fight of good versus evil.


Good luck with that if you even think of putting forth a candidate like Hillary again.


At this point, I think the 2-party system is malignant and needs to be excised like a bad tumor.


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marshall
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27 Jan 2017, 3:38 pm

firemonkey wrote:
It's a wildly unsophisticated analysis that ignores the fact that all politics is inflected by identity.

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/01/sto ... used-trump

I don't know where this "identity politics" meme came from. It seems to be levied mainly at SJW types, who are really a minority of the left.

From my understanding, "identity politics" gives the Republican party an advantage. Rural "good old boys" pretty much vote for "team red" no matter what. It doesn't even matter who the candidate is. If rural America actually voted based on self-interest rather than identity politics things would be different.



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27 Jan 2017, 4:50 pm

marshall wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
It's a wildly unsophisticated analysis that ignores the fact that all politics is inflected by identity.

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/01/sto ... used-trump

I don't know where this "identity politics" meme came from. It seems to be levied mainly at SJW types, who are really a minority of the left.

From my understanding, "identity politics" gives the Republican party an advantage. Rural "good old boys" pretty much vote for "team red" no matter what. It doesn't even matter who the candidate is. If rural America actually voted based on self-interest rather than identity politics things would be different.


And that's because too often, team red understands they can keep the rural good ol' boys in tow by playing up red button issues like abortion or gay marriage, or playing up on fears of white extinction, or the spread of Islam.


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KagamineLen
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27 Jan 2017, 6:45 pm

Nope. Trump's presidency was created solely by identity politics.

Most of his supporters come from areas where poverty, unemployment and disenfranchisement is rampant. But the snobbery of the Democratic party sent them the message that their problems did not matter. When a rich celebrity goes on television and talks about the scourge of white male privilege, it rubs the fathers in the Bible Belt trailer parks who cannot provide food for their children in all sorts of wrong ways. When a Democratic comedian uses "poor Southern white trash" as a punchline for their jokes, the people they are referring to tend to resent that stereotype. All these guys really want is decent education, decent healthcare, decent jobs, decent homes, respect as human beings. But they are endlessly mocked and ridiculed instead.

Then the Republicans slither in. And the fundamentalist Christians. And the neo-Nazis. They see this pattern, and they jump at the opportunity to use the endless mockery they endure as recruitment and grooming tools. The Republicans are not going to provide these people with a dignified life. Neither are the Christians or the white Nationalists. But they are going to give them the illusion that they can be a part of something larger than themselves if they sign over their souls to their cause. What the predatory Republicans provide to them is the illusionary sense of belonging.

They end up being screwed by both sides of the political spectrum. Just like everybody else living in poverty in the USA. The fact is that the politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are using identity politics and divisive racial ideology to distract people from the fact that they are not intending to provide them with jobs or with dignified lives.

And all of this is very disgusting to me.



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28 Jan 2017, 1:46 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
marshall wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
It's a wildly unsophisticated analysis that ignores the fact that all politics is inflected by identity.

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/01/sto ... used-trump

I don't know where this "identity politics" meme came from. It seems to be levied mainly at SJW types, who are really a minority of the left.

From my understanding, "identity politics" gives the Republican party an advantage. Rural "good old boys" pretty much vote for "team red" no matter what. It doesn't even matter who the candidate is. If rural America actually voted based on self-interest rather than identity politics things would be different.


And that's because too often, team red understands they can keep the rural good ol' boys in tow by playing up red button issues like abortion or gay marriage, or playing up on fears of white extinction, or the spread of Islam.

It isn't about any one issue really though. It's about opposing "sissy boy" metrosexuals on the coasts. Trump represents hyper-masculinity to them, with all his "tough" talk. The right wing appeals to penis-thinkers.



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28 Jan 2017, 1:56 am

KagamineLen wrote:
Nope. Trump's presidency was created solely by identity politics.

Most of his supporters come from areas where poverty, unemployment and disenfranchisement is rampant. But the snobbery of the Democratic party sent them the message that their problems did not matter. When a rich celebrity goes on television and talks about the scourge of white male privilege, it rubs the fathers in the Bible Belt trailer parks who cannot provide food for their children in all sorts of wrong ways. When a Democratic comedian uses "poor Southern white trash" as a punchline for their jokes, the people they are referring to tend to resent that stereotype. All these guys really want is decent education, decent healthcare, decent jobs, decent homes, respect as human beings. But they are endlessly mocked and ridiculed instead.

Then the Republicans slither in. And the fundamentalist Christians. And the neo-Nazis. They see this pattern, and they jump at the opportunity to use the endless mockery they endure as recruitment and grooming tools. The Republicans are not going to provide these people with a dignified life. Neither are the Christians or the white Nationalists. But they are going to give them the illusion that they can be a part of something larger than themselves if they sign over their souls to their cause. What the predatory Republicans provide to them is the illusionary sense of belonging.

They end up being screwed by both sides of the political spectrum. Just like everybody else living in poverty in the USA. The fact is that the politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are using identity politics and divisive racial ideology to distract people from the fact that they are not intending to provide them with jobs or with dignified lives.

And all of this is very disgusting to me.

Most people have jobs these days. They just aren't as high paying and don't have as many benefits as they used to. I don't really know what right wingers expect the government to do about this. Maybe the US is just past its prime. They are mistaken in thinking anyone from the ruling class gives a s**t about them. Their votes helped destroy the unions. Maybe Americans just have to accept that they aren't worth any more than the sweat-shop laborers who work for peanuts in Bangladesh. Republicans certainly don't give a s**t. Never did. Never will. They represent the ruling class. Their job is to keep the peasants inline with a constant stream of propaganda.



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28 Jan 2017, 2:00 am

marshall wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
marshall wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
It's a wildly unsophisticated analysis that ignores the fact that all politics is inflected by identity.

http://www.newstatesman.com/2017/01/sto ... used-trump

I don't know where this "identity politics" meme came from. It seems to be levied mainly at SJW types, who are really a minority of the left.

From my understanding, "identity politics" gives the Republican party an advantage. Rural "good old boys" pretty much vote for "team red" no matter what. It doesn't even matter who the candidate is. If rural America actually voted based on self-interest rather than identity politics things would be different.


And that's because too often, team red understands they can keep the rural good ol' boys in tow by playing up red button issues like abortion or gay marriage, or playing up on fears of white extinction, or the spread of Islam.

It isn't about any one issue really though. It's about opposing "sissy boy" metrosexuals on the coasts. Trump represents hyper-masculinity to them, with all his "tough" talk. The right wing appeals to penis-thinkers.


Even though, when you get down to it, Trump is just as much a coastal sissy boy, despite his bully boy persona.


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beneficii
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28 Jan 2017, 12:00 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
Nope. Trump's presidency was created solely by identity politics.

Most of his supporters come from areas where poverty, unemployment and disenfranchisement is rampant. But the snobbery of the Democratic party sent them the message that their problems did not matter. When a rich celebrity goes on television and talks about the scourge of white male privilege, it rubs the fathers in the Bible Belt trailer parks who cannot provide food for their children in all sorts of wrong ways. When a Democratic comedian uses "poor Southern white trash" as a punchline for their jokes, the people they are referring to tend to resent that stereotype. All these guys really want is decent education, decent healthcare, decent jobs, decent homes, respect as human beings. But they are endlessly mocked and ridiculed instead.

Then the Republicans slither in. And the fundamentalist Christians. And the neo-Nazis. They see this pattern, and they jump at the opportunity to use the endless mockery they endure as recruitment and grooming tools. The Republicans are not going to provide these people with a dignified life. Neither are the Christians or the white Nationalists. But they are going to give them the illusion that they can be a part of something larger than themselves if they sign over their souls to their cause. What the predatory Republicans provide to them is the illusionary sense of belonging.

They end up being screwed by both sides of the political spectrum. Just like everybody else living in poverty in the USA. The fact is that the politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are using identity politics and divisive racial ideology to distract people from the fact that they are not intending to provide them with jobs or with dignified lives.

And all of this is very disgusting to me.


The Democrats did not invent awareness of oppression, like the problems in the criminal justice system that disproportionately affect black and brown people, but Hillary did co-opt it this past election. However, even if the 2-party system goes down, as long as these types of problems exist, so will awareness of these problems, which awareness you derisively call "identity politics". Maybe Trump supporters would rather us not be aware of these problems and pretend everything will be fine even as the problems continue, and indeed our becoming aware of them might have been what galvanized them to go out and vote. But as they say, once you know something, you can't unknow it. The awareness is here to stay. If Trump supporters don't like that, then they are simply trying to fight the inevitable, a battle they cannot win in the long run.


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